HELPHELPHELP!

[narnia]

well, it appears not............

[finleysmaid]

im afraid they have changed the rules fairly recently about this ...see below extract from how to complain.

Dealing with your complaint

When we receive your complaint we will contact you to discuss the issues you are complaining about and to establish if any, or all, aspects can be resolved quickly. We do not normally withhold publication of an inspection report or withdraw a published inspection report while we investigate complaints unless there are exceptional circumstances.

We will investigate and send you a written response which is informative and aims to answer the agreed main points of concern within 30 working days.

[sunnyday]

What a crock........(fill the rest in for yourselves)

[lashes2508]

I don't have anything to add Narnia as all been said already , except you will come through this and despite all this cr.. You are having to deal with , we know and you know you run a fab setting and will for sure find exactly the right way to make your point. Keep strong , don't let the ...... Get you down xx

[Guest]

There is so much in your report that should be celebrated by you and your staff Narnia, without 3 damning sentences it could have been a great ofsted. I wish you good luck with your appeal and hope that your parents support the good work that you do, which the inspector obviously also saw xxxxx

[narnia]

So..............................next instalment..............................have just received notification that an Inspector from Ofsted will contact me shortly, but in the meantime, they have slightly tweaked the wording to be a little more favourable to us. I have written back to say I still disagree with the overall finding as the visitor wasn't unauthorised and therefore wish my complaint to continue. I said I believed the inspectors made an honest mistake and so, in the interest of fair play and to uphold their own integrity, they should uphold my complaint. We'll see. Don't know when they will put up the tweaked report, it does read more favourably............but only just.

[narnia]

B'stards have just written back to say they are going to rework the wording again..................so still my fault and the inspector isn't wrong. They acknowledge he wasn't 'unauthorised' but it means any 'unauthorised ' people can get in the way he did.!!!!! What, you mean through the main b%$*dy gate?????? I give up, I really do. They acknowledge new fences, re-written policy etc............but still. Got any jobs,sainsbury's???

[Panders]

This has been the nub of the problem all along, whilst you had logged the workmen, that one who was observed nipping over the fence just showed how vulnerable the security was, BUT, to penalise you for something which probably 80percent of us suffer with too is ridiculous -

 

My own situation is going to be a nightmare as and when we are inspected. How can we all afford swanky security systems which keep people off of the premises but inform us of when someone, say a potential parent just wants to drop by and they are standing outside - my main gate is a long way away from the front door and we wouldn't even be able to see anyone standing there on the off chance that they would be spotted!

 

At least you have begun to make headway here Narnia, they are backing down somewhat.

[narnia]

No, he didn't nip over the fence.............he actually had walked around the back of the building and the bit where he came out has a low wall ( I measured.....14 inches) that he stepped off. The inspector had assumed he jumped over a wall to get in, but that is definately not the case. So, another email from them to say that now i have clarified that the wall in question is not a perimeter wall, they are going to investigate further and an investigation officer will call me on Monday. All I asked for........a proper investigation and perhaps an admission that a mistake was made. I know it means re-inspection no matter what, but let's see what Monday brings

[Panders]

Apologies Narnia, I'm not up to date here with what really happened thought the bod had just jumped over.

 

Well it would now seem something concrete is happening. Not often we can report Ofsted being as pro-active! well done Narnia, let's hope you have them by the short and curlies!

[zigzag]

narnia my thoughts are with you and I blooming well hope you get a proper apology and a correct inspection this time. Keep your chin up and keep thinking of the children and the families that need you for childcare and education, NOT serving them in any supermarket(as tempting as it sometimes seems) xx

[narnia]

So, have just come off the phone after an hour long discussion with an investigating officer. The upshot is: if an inspector says something, their word is upheld and is final. If I disagree, I am wrong. However, they are prepared to remove the bit about the workman because I have disputed it. BUT the judgement stands because the place could have been breeched by anyone. You all need to be aware that she said that due to NEW Safeguarding regulations any fences etc had to be good enough to prevent children leaving, or adults coming on to site without my knowledge. I must have missed all that when I was out there with the children watching them. She also said that the elderly gentleman who stopped to say hello, put his arm on the fence and THAT was a risk................and yes, he could have been a paedophile, the fact that I have known him all these years is not under consideration, it was a risk and that's that.

I am now off to have a good weep and consider seriously where I go next, 'cos right now, I've had it.

Edited August 18, 2014 by narnia

[eyfs1966]

FFS, sounds to me like Ofsted are making it up as they go along. What NEW safeguarding rules specifically relate to fence height?? I haven't read that anywhere........

[sunnyday]

So, have just come off the phone after an hour long discussion with an investigating officer. The upshot is: if an inspector says something, their word is upheld and is final. If I disagree, I am wrong. However, they are prepared to remove the bit about the workman because I have disputed it. BUT the judgement stands because the place could have been breeched by anyone. You all need to be aware that she said that due to NEW Safeguarding regulations any fences etc had to be good enough to prevent children leaving, or adults coming on to site without my knowledge. I must have missed all that when I was out there with the children watching them. She also said that the elderly gentleman who stopped to say hello, put his arm on the fence and THAT was a risk................and yes, he could have been a paedophile, the fact that I have known him all these years is not under consideration, it was a risk and that's that.

I am now off to have a good weep and consider seriously where I go next, 'cos right now, I've had it.

I am absolutely lost for words.......

Will try and think of some and return - in the meantime - here comes a huge hug narnia x

[Guest]

Narnia,

 

What a nightmare - right you need to contact Ofsted Big Conversation now! They will hopefully help get your voice out there! It's an absolute joke, the figures themselves speak for what you said re Ofsted though - 4000 complaints from providers and only 1 inspection overturned!

Good luck - we're here if you need anything xx

[Inge]

never heard of the Ofsted big Conversation... but did a search and came up with lots of info and a link to somewhere to make a independant complaint.. http://www.ofstedadjudicationservice.co.uk/?p=introduction

 

As usual it seems we all have to be telepathic and know about any changes without being told.. how many places have fences of 3 feet.. how about those who move fences in and out each day to create an outdoor space.. and our local one is in a field and they use that for outdoor space.. usual field fences there.. 3 feet .. forest schools.. do they all have to be fenced in too..I am sure we could all think of many more places this could also apply to..

makes me very angry that no one informs officially of changes that could impact on a business.. and then kicks you when you dont know..

[Wildflowers]

.

(Wished to delete my post, which said that we don't have a fence around the children because we are in woods, but then our situation is particular, e.g. our group is small.)

Edited August 18, 2014 by Wildflowers

[Cait]

Have you considered contacting your MP?

[sunnyday]

So, have just come off the phone after an hour long discussion with an investigating officer. The upshot is: if an inspector says something, their word is upheld and is final. If I disagree, I am wrong.

Is dictatorship the word I'm looking for

With regard to the fence and outdoor play.......we have three spaces available to us for our outdoor play -

1. A public play area - this is just behind our building and is well-equipped with some super fixed apparatus - we also take out extra resources - this has a fence + gate - but it is a 'public' place - if someone comes along to use it with their child we can either go indoors (not happening) or welcome the other user (always)

2. A lovely field at the front of our building - this has boundary hedging but is really a wide open and again public space.

3. The village green - we have the most wonderful time down there - we have parents permission to take their children - and all risk assessed - but again a public space

At all previous inspections - the play area has been admired, we have been asked "do you use the field" answer "yes and we take the children down to the village green" - all of this has been 'praised'

Would should we do now then stay behind locked doors all session? :blink:

[klc106]

Sending big hugs Narnia.

We also regularly take our children to the local play park, and we are often joined by other members of the public.

At pre-school, we have removable 3ft fence panels to secure the outdoor area whilst we are there.

Worried now as to what they will say about that.

[louby loo]

Can't do quotes..

 

but ' I don't know where to take it further'

and

'have you thought about your MP'

................personally I think I would be going to the papers with this one!

[narnia]

same here, we have a wonderful14 acre park right outside the front door, no fences, no hedges and there's a pond.We go to the farm fields beyond that too

They praised the fact that we take them there and use it all for the children's learning!

[klc106]

That just makes the whole thing seem more crazy!

[Susan]

So sorry Narnia, that you have had this experience and are in this mess. My school experiences are likewise bizarre so, unfortunately Im not surprised. Take care.

[Melba]

Just emailed Ofsted to ask what is the standard we are supposed to be meeting in regard to height of a fence.

Anyone going to join me in eating their hat if they actually say there is any sort of set height we should have?

[Wildflowers]

So my post which I tried to remove wouldn't have been completely off. After reading how Ofsted judged the safety of your fencing Narnia, I assumed that you don't take the children outside of the premises, which you do. Wonderful that so many settings go to natural spaces! And that Ofsted likes us doing it! So what's the fuss? I assume any outdoor space should be fine as long as all risks are listed and some avoided, staff are aware of them and know how to prevent anything dangerous from happening... as it is when we go off the premises to parks, greens, commons and woods.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Wildflowers

[SueJ]

Oh Narnia - I am incandescent on your behalf - I have had experience of complaining about an Ofsted judgement some time ago now - in fact I complained on behalf of the setting and also helped our parents complain - during the inspection parents had complained about the inspectors' (there were two of them) conduct and the manner in which they were spoken too using phrases like "I fell I have been interrogated". Both letters of complaint were detailed (six pages long each) and provided evidence (which the inspectors had already seen) to contradict their judgements.

The upshot I'm afraid was that they had had an "internal investigation" - which sounds as though they all sat round the coffee table having a bit of a moan about why we would have the nerve to complain - and found that there had been nothing wrong with the inspectors' judgement and conduct.

Obviously they don't bare a grudge because our next inspection was carried out by one of the inspectors that we had complained about and she was accompanied by her supervisor for support - I think we are now classed as an "unwelcoming setting" insofar as inspectors are concerned. I distinctly remember the feedback session starting with "If you want to complain"!!!

And the point of all this - it took ages to get over the feeling of being so "powerless" in the face of such intransigent officialdom and also ages for the fury to abate - however eventually comes acceptance - in our case it is an acceptance that the system is fundamentally flawed, the judgement you get really comes down to who you get on the day and their take on what they see but even given that we still believe that we offer our children and families a high quality childcare and education experience and will carry on doing so in spite of everything that they throw at us :1b

As an aside I feel that I can say that too as I have had additional inspector training and during this training - which I passed - in a room of over 30 potential inspectors never once did we all agree on judgement. If anything this was a contributing factor in why I chose not to pursue inspecting other settings as being able to see the coin from both sides I felt that I couldn't blight someone's livelihood with what was essentially my take on how they measured up against the criteria and even though inspections are quality assured that is done so on the inspector's evidence.

[Cait]

Well said Sue

[narnia]

this is one of the comments that sounds a little contradictory:

'Although the manager and her staff are extremely vigilent about supervising the children, the outside area is not secure enough to prevent unauthorised persons entering the premises. This is a breach of the statutory requirements for safeguarding and protecting children'

oh and a little extra sting in the tail? I received a formal letter form our LEA this morning, saying 2 year old funding is withdrawn from us, with the exception of one 2 year old due to start with us in September and even though there is currently no provision in the area with Good, or above.

[Mouseketeer]

Oh Narnia what c**p ....in our last shared setting anyone could have come round the back, jumped the 4ft fence into the play area if they really wanted to ( no amount of vigilant supervising by staff would stop a determined person) and straight in the door as it was always open due to someone deciding 'free flow' was a good idea, we had 3 inspections whilst there and nothing was ever said and if you'd had a diff inspector on the day they most likely would have accepted that you were aware of the workmen and had risk assessed and had the situation fully under control