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inset days


giantalice
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Hmmm - we don't have any 'inset days' more's the pity - would be very useful ::1a

 

We have to work out our funding strictly to the letter i.e. we claim in full weeks and work full weeks......

 

Hope someone with more useful info will be along shortly :1b

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we don't do inset days as such unless there is a polling day as our room is a community room so used for voting.

we have to offer an alternative session/sessions to those attending on that day (per our LA) - it's a nightmare.

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We have 'inset' days which are the same as our local school. We don't get paid for these and don't claim funding. It is how the 38 weeks funding ties in with the 39 week term as we are only sessional, term time.

This polling day we have had to move venue for the morning and the June day we are out on our trip.

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we don't do inset days as such unless there is a polling day as our room is a community room so used for voting.

we have to offer an alternative session/sessions to those attending on that day (per our LA) - it's a nightmare.

I seem to remember reading in the new funding stuff that this has changed!! ;)

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We have five inset days each year. The staff work for 39 weeks in line with schools and we only get funded for 38 weeks - so we use the additional five for inset days. However, our LA are very clear that we can have up to five inset days each year within the 38 weeks if we chose to, they consider that just like schools, that staff professional development is part of delivering a quality service. If our staff didn't work 39 weeks, I would definitely still take the 5 inset days off our 38 weeks.

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Sounds good GFCCCC and if Corbyn wins the GE we can add another 5 bank hols into the mix.. happy days. Isn't it funny how from LA to LA the information is so very different. Children are entitled to 570 hours or 1140 hours per year, if 30 hours already. If we divide 570 by 38 we get the 15 hours per week entitlement. During these 38 weeks we have a few bank holidays that children do not attend.. usually 2 BH I believe? May Day being one.. can't quite put my finger on the other? Anyway at least 1 BH..

 

So really, we should be offering this 15 hours back? Having 5 extra days = 75 hours of more lost hours.. that's 90 hours and is becoming a large chunk of the 570 hours entitled. Don't get me wrong.. I am all for it but... I think you see my point?

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if Corbyn wins the GE we can add another 5 bank hols into the mix...

I was just about to post 'there is no chance that JC will win the election'..........but then I remembered........I didn't think Trump would win in the states.......I didn't think we would leave the EU........so all in all what do I know - not a lot! :ph34r:

 

Anyway - back on topic - we already have to 'make up' Bank Holidays :wacko: there really is no leeway at all for us Kent practitioners

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I seem to remember reading in the new funding stuff that this has changed!! ;)

Yes it has changed. DofE stated quite definitely that settings should not be penalized for closures beyond their control such as weather or polling/election days. As for B/Hols how ridiculous. There's only the May Day one that falls in term time. I bet LA's still get the money from central government.

 

We would never be able to make up the extra days for B/Hols or being used as a polling station. We're full every session and I'm certainly not going to work an extra day. I really think it's grossly unfair of LA's to do this.

Edited by lynned55
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We have the BH in May off and still get funded as our LA with fund a full week as long as we are open at least 3 days in that week. So technically we could have next Thursday off (polling station) but our parents wouldn't forgive us having two days off in a week. God forbid that they would have to look after their own children for two days in a week!!!!

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If we had another five bank holidays that really would be the end of us. We are open 51 weeks a year so already have several bank holidays that we have no fees coming in but I still have to pay staff. April and May are difficult months with a total of four bank holidays!

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We don't currently count bank holidays towards annual holiday pay and Monday staff are paid, but I guess it's something to think about if times are/get tough, we only have the one to worry about at that moment but that adds up with Monday workers all having an extra days holiday pay, I'm sure employees will be thinking 'great 5 more bank holidays' but not so keen if they then knew they would have to take them as annual leave.

 

"Bank holidays

Bank or public holidays do not have to be given as paid leave.

 

An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave".

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It must have been a long week before I wrote my last post here!! I have just re-read it back and realised I made a massive error in hours :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:

 

Anyways - Moving on.. I did not know about the Bank Holidays are not needed to be given. That is interesting and hopefully we do not get any more BH's.. like said, Corbyn has no chance of winning! Does he.? :wacko:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I recently took over as Admin of a setting and have been responsible for invoicing parents. I soon realised that although parents get 570 hours per year, there is a maximum per term which we can claim for (certainly in my LEA anyway). This very often doesn't match with the number of days we are open.

 

As an example, we can claim 210 hours in Autumn Term, 165 in Spring Term and 195 in the Summer term. However, our term dates are linked to the local school and as such, our opening hours (at 3 hrs per session) have been 213 hours, 171 hours and 186 hours.

 

This means that some terms, children who are fully funded are actually attending *more* session hours than the max we can reclaim, and in others, they are accessing *less* than we claim.

 

I spent a significant amount of time on the phone with the LEA and the PSLA to confirm exactly what we were and were not entitled to do with regards to invoicing, and offering these hours back to parents. In summary, if we're open for more hours than the funded maximum, then we are able to invoice parents for these extra hours. They are not under any obligation to pay, and if they want to access their funded hours only then we mutually agree which session(s) they will not attend.

 

For parents who will not get their full entitlement (like in this summer term) we should where practical offer parents extra sessions to make up these hours. However, if that isn't feasible (full to capacity, don't offer PM sessions and therefore literally don't have any other sessions they could attend), then it's just one of those things. They will not attempt to reclaim the 'overpayment' as it were, as it's just the way the dates lie.

 

For example, in the 2017-2018 year, Autumn we'll be open 207 hours, Spring 168 hours and Summer 195 hours.

 

They also made it clear to me that we shouldn't attempt to 'balance out' hours across terms and to treat each term independently.

Edited by Sarah_Jones
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Hmmm different LA's, different rules! Wouldn't it be good if we all knew what we should do... clear and transparent springs to mind!

Our LA now says as long as they get their entitlement, the years our own! We can open or close around the term times or stretch the offer.

Good that they won't reclaim though.

,

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'They also made it clear to me that we shouldn't attempt to 'balance out' hours across terms and to treat each term independently.'

 

My county have just done exactly that as the end of year fell in the spring term instead of the Easter holiday, we ran a 13 wk term with 12 weeks funding (Spring)and are now running a 12 wk term with 13wks funding, which meant those increasing hours for the summer term did those extra hours for the last week of Sprng term or we would of been funded for hours they didn't attend .....all quite confusing

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Do schools run their financial year from Sept-August does anyone know?

 

I think some of the problems arise because Early Years is April-March, and as we all know the two do not mix- which I think can cause havoc if attached to a school.

 

Quite a few setting in our LA were opening on all the dates shown on the website- they have now made it clearer that it is 'x' amount of weeks between those dates- and not the actual dates shown! Gives us a little flexibility - and we like to open really early in the Autumn term and finish early at Christmas.

 

We have been told if we still incur expenses on 'closed days beyond our control' we can keep the funding.

Staff are paid from holiday allowance, we rent our hall on a termly basis therefore we keep funding. We don't swap/offer the lost hours.

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Somewhere, in among ALL the stuff I have read over last coupe of months, possibly in DofE guidelines, it stated quite clearly that LA;s must not penalize settings for 'emergency' closures such as elections, weather etc. I wish I could find it.

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We have three INSET days, usually one at the start of each term. Parents don't pay for them, or bank holidays. We are funded 14 weeks in the autumn and 12 each spring and summer so also have a mismatch between that and actual days but think it works out in the end although the bank holiday caught me out this year and I think technically I should have added an extra day - but it's a bit late now!

Edited by MarshaD
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so if I'm reading info correct are schools going to be able to claim for 1140 hours even though they will only supply 1110? seems a bit unfair doesn't it?

 

We are open (and claim for) 570 hours in total throughout the year, it's just that because of the way our LEA determines that funding is apportioned, some terms we claim for more hours that we can physically deliver. However, in other months, we deliver more than we claim for.

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.. although the bank holiday caught me out this year and I think technically I should have added an extra day - but it's a bit late now!

 

To be honest I try not to overthink about these ... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

We have three inset days a year. Autumn and Spring we have the very first day of term, Summer we tag on one side of the half term to allow us to do all our transition to school planning etc

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