30 Hours "Free"

[SueJ]

If as it is looking more and more likely we are going to have a Conservative government the spectre of 30 Hours "Free" childcare and education is looming - along with a "full funding review" :wacko:

 

This is going to make quite a difference to my business model methinks!!!!! :blink:

[Wildflowers]

I'm worried too. Has anyone looked into their plan? They offered an increase to funding, but how can that be possible if they couldn't give us enough during the 15 hours? Any guess from when this will happen

[SueJ]

Last time the funding increased (remember from 12.5 hours to 15 way back) it was introduced for the summer term e.g., at the beginning of a new financial year so it could be as early as April 2016!!

[Fredbear]

Yes this is now something for some of us to fret over.

Won't be possible for us in our current establishment.

In the Conservative manifesto it stated as early as 2017.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Fredbear

[Mouseketeer]

I'm not sure many of us will need to worry about where to put them, well not the pre-school year group, I can see more schools will open up to them, work on their already catchment areas and take the children that would have fed into reception class anyway....which would mean more 2 yr olds ...oh shoot me now :,(

[Stargrower]

Our parents seem to be obsessed with 'getting them used to being at school'. We used to keep the majority of children until they started reception but now our local 'requires improvement' school offers 32.5 hours free per week, they leave in their droves 'to get them used to school'.

[sunnyday]

What an absolute nightmare

 

I had big plans for change as from September 2016 - none of my plans included having to offer 30 hours

 

It will, I'm sure, be up for consultation - if so we must band together and say a very emphatic NO

 

I can't see who will benefit - funding is set far too low - I can't see the Day Nurseries welcoming this anymore than the smaller sessional pre-schools.........

 

If the plan is to get them into schools (I suspect it is) they are going to have to budget for some rebuilds/new builds - schools around here are not going to be able to accommodate without (this could be famous last words but I can't see it myself)

 

Just off now to bang my head against something hard

[louby loo]

What an absolute nightmare

 

I had big plans for change as from September 2016 - none of my plans included having to offer 30 hours

 

It will, I'm sure, be up for consultation - if so we must band together and say a very emphatic NO

 

I can't see who will benefit - funding is set far too low - I can't see the Day Nurseries welcoming this anymore than the smaller sessional pre-schools.........

 

If the plan is to get them into schools (I suspect it is) they are going to have to budget for some rebuilds/new builds - schools around here are not going to be able to accommodate without (this could be famous last words but I can't see it myself)

 

 

 

Just off now to bang my head against something hard

 

Maybe I'm being naive here- but I think the 'working parents' is the important part here, I think sessional preschools are possibly the lucky ones- if we can only offer 'x' of opening ours then that's the max we can offer. However full-day care are pretty much stuffed :-(.

I know all settings are different - but we only have 2 parents out of 56 children where parents both work (well 1+ 1single working parents)

PS- what are/were the big changes for September? I need to know... I need 'big change' inspiration:-) :-) :-) xx

[Rea]

We wouldnt have to offer the full entitlement would we?

Its down to each LA to ensure the children get the hours but they cant stipulate where, isnt that right?

[Fredbear]

Who knows, watch this space.!!!!!!!!!!!

[sunnyday]

Maybe I'm being naive here- but I think the 'working parents' is the important part here, I think sessional preschools are possibly the lucky ones- if we can only offer 'x' of opening ours then that's the max we can offer. However full-day care are pretty much stuffed :-(.

I know all settings are different - but we only have 2 parents out of 56 children where parents both work (well 1+ 1single working parents)

PS- what are/were the big changes for September? I need to know... I need 'big change' inspiration:-) :-) :-) xx

 

 

We wouldnt have to offer the full entitlement would we?

Its down to each LA to ensure the children get the hours but they cant stipulate where, isnt that right?

 

Ladies - it is a condition of funding now (well at least it is here) that we offer 15 hours - so I just assumed that if this changes we would be 'required' to offer 30.........I hope that I am wrong.........

 

Louby - my parents are not full time workers - in fact most are 'stay at home mums' (good for them :1b ) hardly any want 15 hours -so I'm pretty sure they would not be interested in 30

 

My changes for Sept.'16 are taking from age 3 only (oh I can hear the sharp intakes of breath from here :rolleyes: ) and changing from opening 9-12 each weekday morning to 9 - 1 on Mon, Tues, Weds and from 9 -12 on Thursdays and not opening at all on Fridays.......

[Panders]

 

 

 

Ladies - it is a condition of funding now (well at least it is here) that we offer 15 hours - so I just assumed that if this changes we would be 'required' to offer 30.........I hope that I am wrong.........

 

Louby - my parents are not full time workers - in fact most are 'stay at home mums' (good for them :1b ) hardly any want 15 hours -so I'm pretty sure they would not be interested in 30

 

My changes for Sept.'16 are taking from age 3 only (oh I can hear the sharp intakes of breath from here :rolleyes: ) and changing from opening 9-12 each weekday morning to 9 - 1 on Mon, Tues, Weds and from 9 -12 on Thursdays and not opening at all on Fridays.......

Lovely opening pattern Sunnyday - we are closed on Wednesdays and have been for about 15 years, don't think I could work on a Wednesday now if my life depended upon it! We are 9.15- 1.15 except Tuesdays when we close at 12.15.

[louby loo]

 

My changes for Sept.'16 are taking from age 3 only (oh I can hear the sharp intakes of breath from here :rolleyes: ) and changing from opening 9-12 each weekday morning to 9 - 1 on Mon, Tues, Weds and from 9 -12 on Thursdays and not opening at all on Fridays.......

That sounds like a good plan to me :-) I stopped working Friday's last year....bliss :-)

 

If it were down to me I think I would consider just taking 3+. I currently think we are seriously failing our 3/4 year olds as I honestly don't think our set-up (the hall) is ideal for such a big age range. The two year olds just want to be 'two year olds'- which is as it should be, but we just can't fully extend the older ones :-( . We used to run over ratio- but the owner has now stopped that- so not such a fun place to be now :-( .

[Guest]

It seems as though it will come in in 2017, but be limited to working parents where both work more than 8 hours per week and there seems to be a hint that capital finding will be available to schools to create new nursery places".

 

Don't shoot the messenger!

[Fredbear]

No I think your right Bob, however there will be limited outdoor space for primary school pupils if they keep expanding anymore.

In my neck of the woods they are currently having to expand to take school aged children, let alone the younger ones.

[Panders]

That sounds like a good plan to me :-) I stopped working Friday's last year....bliss :-)

 

If it were down to me I think I would consider just taking 3+. I currently think we are seriously failing our 3/4 year olds as I honestly don't think our set-up (the hall) is ideal for such a big age range. The two year olds just want to be 'two year olds'- which is as it should be, but we just can't fully extend the older ones :-( . We used to run over ratio- but the owner has now stopped that- so not such a fun place to be now :-( .

When I first started in the business 25 years ago, we only took 3 year olds to begin with, then the schools started taking our 4 year olds in September as a one intake and so we had to "fight" back and bring our admission age down to 2 and a half. Frankly at the moment, we the funding, a lot of our children don't start until the are 3+, quite rare for us to have a 2 and a half year old to start in September anyway.

[sunnyday]

It seems as though it will come in in 2017, but be limited to working parents where both work more than 8 hours per week and there seems to be a hint that capital finding will be available to schools to create new nursery places".

 

Don't shoot the messenger!

Promise not to shoot you - can you share your information source?

[sunnyday]

Lovely opening pattern Sunnyday - we are closed on Wednesdays and have been for about 15 years, don't think I could work on a Wednesday now if my life depended upon it! We are 9.15- 1.15 except Tuesdays when we close at 12.15.

 

 

That sounds like a good plan to me :-) I stopped working Friday's last year....bliss :-)

 

If it were down to me I think I would consider just taking 3+. I currently think we are seriously failing our 3/4 year olds as I honestly don't think our set-up (the hall) is ideal for such a big age range. The two year olds just want to be 'two year olds'- which is as it should be, but we just can't fully extend the older ones :-( . We used to run over ratio- but the owner has now stopped that- so not such a fun place to be now :-( .

 

I can't tell you how pleased I am that you both think my proposed changes are a good idea :1b

 

I have never taken 2 year olds - have always taken from 2.5 - but i would really like to take from 3 only........this bit won't be popular.......but hey - there you go......I am interested in whether the 2.5s are changing or whether it's me and my old age :blink:

[louby loo]

 

 

 

I can't tell you how pleased I am that you both think my proposed changes are a good idea :1b

 

I have never taken 2 year olds - have always taken from 2.5 - but i would really like to take from 3 only........this bit won't be popular.......but hey - there you go......I am interested in whether the 2.5s are changing or whether it's me and my old age :blink:

We have just had two start the day after their second birthday :-) ... I spend most of the session cuddling/comforting them- the older ones run amuck!!!!

[sunnyday]

We have just had two start the day after their second birthday :-) ... I spend most of the session cuddling/comforting them- the older ones run amuck!!!!

That's just sad

[Jester]

That is sad Louby Loo, I've always felt that the 2 year old funding would be better used to support families to care for their children in the home not putting them in pre school where the environment isn't always ideal if you have many 3/4 year olds, but hey I'm not the shiny faced one who's grinning like a Cheshire Cat and making all these "plans"

 

In the pre school I worked alongside we started to take 2 year olds as a trial but actually found that with a foundation unit and reception children this really wasn't appropriate and we weren't meeting their needs.

 

I can't see how they could afford it for the majority, as it is staff get paid a pittance (ESP round here, hence the extremely high turn over of many of the nurseries in the area)

 

Sunny day I love your proposal for your changes, as a parent I would actually prefer a 9-1 session for my child as opposed to 845 to 1145 as my eldest need to be in school at 845 so he misses 15 minutes of the session. And actually having a day off is good! To catch up with your own life!

[sunnyday]

 

Sunny day I love your proposal for your changes, as a parent I would actually prefer a 9-1 session for my child as opposed to 845 to 1145 as my eldest need to be in school at 845 so he misses 15 minutes of the session. And actually having a day off is good! To catch up with your own life!

 

Thank you - it is great to hear that 'people in the know' don't think 'well she's really lost the plot now'!

[Fredbear]

Yes I love your idea too.

[Rafa]

Thank you - it is great to hear that 'people in the know' don't think 'well she's really lost the plot now'!

Way to go Sunnyday! I have been promising myself a similar change for a couple of years, but has never happened : (

 

I am inspired now to action it. "Call me Dave" can go figure.........if there is a consultation then yes we vote Nooooooo!!!

 

(though I'm not sure the peoples vote counts in this country)!

 

If it happens, and its a condition of funding then I reckon I will be using my last EYPP pennies to buy a SKIP!! and throwing myself in!

 

btw have you informed Parents yet?

Edited May 8, 2015 by Rafa

[MegaMum]

Food for thought Sunnyday.

 

I would love to take from 2.5 or 3. I had a big intake of 2 year olds in September and it changed the dynamics of considerably. We are a Pre-school, not a toddler group, but at the end of the day I did sign up to the 2 year funding, which in hindsight I wonder who this is benefitting? Certainly not us! This year the children have come in immediately they are 2 and they cry and have such separation anxiety. It has stopped me bringing in more 3 years olds due to the higher staff ratios for the 2's and they reign chaos. Obviously, as 2 year olds they are doing what 2 year olds do, but the clean up everyday is now causing us an extra 30 minutes of unpaid time to tidy and sort everything out.

 

Some of our parents receiving this funding are benefit cheats too, who know how to play the system, which is incredibly unfair. Funnily enough, I have had some Spanish children join this year, and they put our British children to shame regarding behaviour and their parents expectations of them. This is a refreshing change.

 

Our competition takes 2 year funded children, so I feel we need to stay competative, but then do we?

[zigzag]

We take from two and a half and I constantly find myself beating myself up that either the younger ones or the older ones are not getting the most out of pre school. The stages of development are so vast between these age groups. We have no choice, like most of you, we cannot afford to turn away the younger ones. I am all ready dreading September as we have so many two and a half year olds starting and the older I get the harder I find them!! Think I may join Sunny day with the head banging.

[eyfs1966]

thank goodness I will be closed by the time this comes into play. If we weren't closing anyway (due to loss of premises), I think this would probably have been the straw that breaks this camel's back!

[thumperrabbit]

We don't open for 15 hours luckily our LEA don't stipulate it as part of funding - they do however keep pushing for us to open for 15 hours as they reckon that's why we struggle for money, this so isn't the case we like you Sunnyday have mums who don't work they don't want 12 hours let alone 15 hours!

 

We are also struggling more and more with parents who don't take up their hours until their child is funded - money is flowing through our fingers

[Mouseketeer]

If it actually happens and the minimum working hours to qualify is set to 8 ....what the b***y hell will they be doing for the other 22 hrs ???

[Guest]

Without meaning to offend anyone here.

I would like to know how you survive?

As nice as it sounds being able to choose the hours you open and the children you want to take.

We are a Pre-School opening 8am-6pm Monday to Friday taking children 2-5 years and school children 5-11years. Without this we would have folded many years ago because we would not have been able to compete wtih other settings in our area.

As for taking 2 year olds we have done this for the past 12 years and we only have one playroom.

If I was to say I don't take autistic children everyone would be saying that I was not inclusive so how can you say you will not take 2 year olds? yes they have different needs but you staff and adjust to meet them. This was recognised with the higher rate of funding for 2 year olds.

If you are a non profit making Pre-School like us I would think that the 30 free hours funding could be a positive one as many day nurseries say that the funding does not cover their hourly rate so may well pull out of taking funded children. Would this not be a business opportunity for Pre-Schools to take these children? Yes I can see that the plan is to have them in schools but until the infrastructure is there we could reap the benefits.

Maybe our area is different but I do have many children that take their 15 hours and more because mums work. We are in an affluent area where many of our mums and dads are professionals so do need the 30 hours childcare.

So I will be very interested in seeing the results of the 30 hours funding being introduced.