Rafa Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I may be wrong but our LA have just sent an email telling us that they are moving the headcount to the end of term so that 'we can input hours accessed - including holidays taken'. Do you think this means they are going to deduct funding if a family decides to take a break during the term?? Do other LAs do this? If so are you allowed to charge for the time they are on holiday? Up to now when we have been audited they just say You should tell parents they should not take time off for holidays, but hey they don't listen to us!! We often have parents say Oh they wont be in next week we're off.......,, What are you supposed to say to that? Oh no your not? I have emailed to ask if this is going to be another way of cutting costs.....no response as yet! Do schools have their funding deducted? I know Parents are fined but do schools actually lose out financially! Feeling my blood reaching boiling point......... 1
finleysmaid Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 pre-school is not compulsory...I don't see how they could police this? 3
SueJ Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Currently our LA will fund for 2 weeks of term time holiday in a child's funding year e.g., 2 weeks whilst they claim 3 year old funding and then 2 weeks whilst they claim 4 year old funding. If they take any more than this then funding is either not paid or clawed back on audit. I charge parents our session fee rates for any time taken off over this 2 week period. I keep a holiday register for this purpose which is also quite useful as an attendance tracking tool under the new inspection framework. We are a term time setting so I don't know how the calculations work for those operating all year round where parents use the stretched offer.
Fredbear Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Have you signed a funding contract for this year. I would look very closely at its contents as they may well be in breach of contract if it's not written within it as well as the payment dates.:(
lsp Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I have never heard of this in our area. What happens to children off sick? Do they have to provide sick note?? I can just hear the response from some of our parents. How on earth do you get the money from them - you can't cut hours of staffing for week here, week there! So yet again we will lose out.
blondie Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 our la is the same - two weeks holiday allowed then any extra has to be paid for by the parent with funds being taken back by the la. we had a couple of families last year who returned to india for family weddings which last about four weeks so they had to pay two weeks - were not happy but said that unless they were prepared to do this then we couldnt keep their sessions open as no money for the two weeks.
zigzag Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Now a few years ago, we had a child who had TERRIBLE attendance. When we mentioned this to the funding, they said don't worry, just claim it anyway!!! We often have families who take of on holiday and we have never considered this from a funding point of view. One more thing to look into. 1
Inge Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I have never heard of this in our area. What happens to children off sick? Do they have to provide sick note?? I can just hear the response from some of our parents. How on earth do you get the money from them - you can't cut hours of staffing for week here, week there! So yet again we will lose out. I our area parents have to supply a written note when children are off sick..have done for a long time now... In the end I had a book where they entered details and signed as so many forgot to write a note.. We felt that while it caused more paper to keep, it was no different to all local schools who want a written note for absences . As to holiday time, we had 2 week paid and then parent had to pay if they wanted to keep the place.
Joanne123 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I may be wrong but our LA have just sent an email telling us that they are moving the headcount to the end of term so that 'we can input hours accessed - including holidays taken'. Do you think this means they are going to deduct funding if a family decides to take a break during the term?? Do other LAs do this? If so are you allowed to charge for the time they are on holiday? Up to now when we have been audited they just say You should tell parents they should not take time off for holidays, but hey they don't listen to us!! We often have parents say Oh they wont be in next week we're off.......,, What are you supposed to say to that? Oh no your not? I have emailed to ask if this is going to be another way of cutting costs.....no response as yet! Do schools have their funding deducted? I know Parents are fined but do schools actually lose out financially! Feeling my blood reaching boiling point......... What area are you in Rafa?
Rafa Posted October 2, 2015 Author Posted October 2, 2015 Now a few years ago, we had a child who had TERRIBLE attendance. When we mentioned this to the funding, they said don't worry, just claim it anyway!!! We often have families who take of on holiday and we have never considered this from a funding point of view. One more thing to look into. What area are you in Rafa? Well that was pretty much the same for us zigzag, we have to keep an absence log and provided parents had signed this nothing much was said at audit - apart from keep an eye on absences, we will deduct if a pattern emerges. Looks like this is another cistcutting excercise - probably looking at ways to fund the free 30! Im Leicestershire Joanne
finleysmaid Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 actually I think this is a form of discrimination for those who have relatives abroad! 1
Rafa Posted October 2, 2015 Author Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for your responses. Still quietly seething. Can see this being yet another 'loss maker' and another set of fees that will need chasing! Its really very unfair!
Fredbear Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Well just took a peek on Leicester city councils website. It was last updated in Feb 2015 and under contract and parental statement it clearly states about attendance or non-attendance, unless with a valid reason of illness or holiday. I also think it could be classed as discrimination, what about our travelling families. Can anyone from the school sector tell us whether they are expected to repay any monies from their budget for this. Edited October 2, 2015 by Fredbear 1
MegaMum Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Hi Rafa. I was about to post as my blood is boiling too and then I saw your thread. I have just received the same E-mail and immediately started moaning to my husband this is another way to take money away from us!!! So how are we supposed to pay staff, rent etc? Our authority is such an 'advisory' one but keeps our hands tied. No we aren't allowed to charge parents a penny but where do they expect us to keep finding the money from to keep providing the high quality of care and education Ofsted keeps raising the bar for us to provide? This week alone I have had one child break £50 worth of resources... who pays to replace that? Hmmmm..... It gets worse! We were always told the children could take holidays and we have never been penalised for it...... So get ready the rest of you because guess whats coming! This is absolutely insane and we need to unite. And by the way, no I am not going to provide 30 hours at this point we are adequately funded! 2
mundia Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Do you think this has any relationship to new inspection framework which now includes a bit on supporting prompt and regular attendance?
finleysmaid Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Do you think this has any relationship to new inspection framework which now includes a bit on supporting prompt and regular attendance? Humm in one camp im being asked to be flexible and in the other I have to make sure they are on time and come every day....despite pre-school not being compulsory...ever get the feeling you can't win 2
MegaMum Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 How can we insist on prompt and regular attendence? I challenged county regarding our funding and children not attending, and was told its not compulsory they attend, so reduce their hours if they keep missing time. Yet again, no thought to providers struggling..... Just take the loss. What is the point of the Parental Statement of Undertaking if it isnt enforced? Eventually they will close us all and then God help the children, because schools aren't the answer by a long shot. 2
Rafa Posted October 2, 2015 Author Posted October 2, 2015 How can we insist on prompt and regular attendence? I challenged county regarding our funding and children not attending, and was told its not compulsory they attend, so reduce their hours if they keep missing time. Yet again, no thought to providers struggling..... Just take the loss. What is the point of the Parental Statement of Undertaking if it isnt enforced? Eventually they will close us all and then God help the children, because schools aren't the answer by a long shot. Totally agree MegaMum, I'm as mad as hell that there is absoloutely no thought to how we are supposed to provide the long list of standards, adhere to the evergrowing regulations, policies and procedures and Ofsteds Framework on less and less money!! They are really taking the capital P with this! I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really believe they are trying to make pre-schools a thing of the past.
Rafa Posted October 2, 2015 Author Posted October 2, 2015 Sorry, still ranting.........on the same email they point us to the new Parent Information on FEEE. Tell us to use it....and nowhere on this new FEEE info does it say anything about HOLIDAYS!!! Thanks .gov - yeah leave it to us to argue the case!
Guest Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 See, when my provider update says this: "Collecting the headcount data in this way will allow you to submit accurately the hours a child has accessed across the term, including holidays, minimising the amount of time spent on submitting mid-term adjustments and holiday adjustments" I took this to mean children who were using any of their funding during the holiday periods. Now children can take less hours per week and bank them to use during the holidays I thought this is what they were getting at with being able to submit all that info at the same time I hope so otherwise a lot of parents are going to be cheesed off with having to pay for sessions they've missed
finleysmaid Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 See, when my provider update says this: "Collecting the headcount data in this way will allow you to submit accurately the hours a child has accessed across the term, including holidays, minimising the amount of time spent on submitting mid-term adjustments and holiday adjustments" I took this to mean children who were using any of their funding during the holiday periods. Now children can take less hours per week and bank them to use during the holidays I thought this is what they were getting at with being able to submit all that info at the same time I hope so otherwise a lot of parents are going to be cheesed off with having to pay for sessions they've missed I would read it that way too...maybe your lea needs to qualify this info.! 1
Rafa Posted October 3, 2015 Author Posted October 3, 2015 See, when my provider update says this: "Collecting the headcount data in this way will allow you to submit accurately the hours a child has accessed across the term, including holidays, minimising the amount of time spent on submitting mid-term adjustments and holiday adjustments" I took this to mean children who were using any of their funding during the holiday periods. Now children can take less hours per week and bank them to use during the holidays I thought this is what they were getting at with being able to submit all that info at the same time I hope so otherwise a lot of parents are going to be cheesed off with having to pay for sessions they've missed Ahhhh, maybe I've jumped the gun and read it to mean, re-term time settings, didnt think about nurserys open all year!!! All that grumbling then for nothing? - Oh well, I can take a deep breath and chill now, ha ha! Perhaps I need anger management classes, guess I'm not very trusting anymore......
larnielass Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 How would they find out if you didn't tell them??
Cait Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 How would they find out if you didn't tell them?? When they check your registers at audit
BroadOaks Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Wow it really is becoming a tight squeeze in some areas!! And they want us to double the hours of funding per eligible child!! If unfunded children are off, they still pay! The funding is usually paid for a set number of hours i thought regardless of actual attendance due to the place being available during these hours.. you have kept your end of the bargain making available these already underfunded hours! it's a joke!
lynned55 Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 Do schools lose their funding if a child is off more than a certain amount, I wonder.
Guest Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Our LA do pay for term time holidays, but if it's longer than 2 weeks we need to have a confirmed return date and then get the LA to confirm that they will still pay for those weeks. I have a family going away for 8 weeks (including the half term) and am still getting the other 7 weeks funding paid. Rafa, I would check how this affects your payment dates - our LA keep pushing back as it used to be during half term and is now the last week of November! However we do get an interim payment at the start of each term. I applied for an increase to this as I had far more funded children compared to last September, which is what the interim payment would be based on. Also, why should they get to hold on to "my" money for an extra month! For non-attendance, we do the usual "do you realise how important....". In the extreme circumstances with one child last year, he had just over 50% attendance, and I think over the whole 3 terms there were only 2 weeks when he was here all 3 mornings. When it came to this year, I told parents that if they weren't going to bring him in regularly I would have to give the place to another child who would attend. It's been better - so far!
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