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National Living Wage


TinkThing
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So, anyone else panicking at the thought of affording the new national living wage from next April? We have one member of staff (out of 6) on minimum wage who this will apply to, but if we increase her wage, surely we have to increase everyone else's to maintain the pay structure we have in place now?

 

We've just increased our fees for September, so goodness knows how we will afford it, especially as funding is not increasing...

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Yes panicking a little here too. Not sure how we can find the extra revenue as we have already increased fees for September 2015.

I'm all for paying our fantastic staff team a decent wage but where is it going to come from I ask.:(:(:(:(

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I must admit as I watched the budget on tv (for the first time ever) my first thought when this was announced is 'how on earth will providers pay for this?'. As mundia says, it is vital that you all engage with the consultation so that they get the message loud and clear.

 

I still miss my children and families enormously, but I must say on days like this I realise I made the right decision to close my nursery when I did. :(

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Not forgetting that if £9 is the minimum wage if you have an incremental salary structure that rewards staff with high qualifications, additional responsibilities etc. the increments will also need to increase too!!

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Exactly Sue, that's my worry! I just don't see how we can sustain it. We are a not-for-profit charity run teeny preschool, not a big multi-national business. Whilst it is fair that people have a decent wage for what they do, we need to maintain the current salary structure we have to recognise qualification and experience as well as status and it's just not do-able at £7.20/hour, let alone £9/hour from 2020 :(

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It will close us down :(

It will be tough choices I suspect and whilst my staff team may well be salivating at the thought of a minimum starting rate of £9 / hour they won't be quite so impressed when they understand that unless funding rates increase significantly to fund this it will either be closure or redundancies :(

 

I have email updates from the Foundation Years and this one popped into my box today about the number of childcare providers decreasing :huh:

 

"Ofsted has published statistics on Childcare inspections and outcomes covering childcare in England. The report show that:

  • There has been an overall decrease in the number of childcare providers on the Ofsted register since last year (down by 3,134 to 89,117)"
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The majority of the reduction in providers is down to reduced numbers of childminders though, not childcare on non domestic premises which has slightly increased. Overall the number of places available has gone up.

I wonder if our childminder members here are responding to the call for evidence and what their views are on funding, as they are obviously leaving this sector for a reason? Is it because not as many new childminders are starting up? We are certainly noticing fewer starting out as childminders now

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It will be tough choices I suspect and whilst my staff team may well be salivating at the thought of a minimum starting rate of £9 / hour they won't be quite so impressed when they understand that unless funding rates increase significantly to fund this it will either be closure or redundancies :(

 

 

 

:( My thoughts exactly - the days of us working comfortably over ratio will have to come to an end - how sad - we are a lovely little team in our lovely little pre-school and pride ourselves on providing an 'outstanding' adult:child ratio..........

 

Just off to kick something and use some rather colourful language..........don't suppose that will help though......

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The majority of the reduction in providers is down to reduced numbers of childminders though, not childcare on non domestic premises which has slightly increased. Overall the number of places available has gone up.

I wonder if our childminder members here are responding to the call for evidence and what their views are on funding, as they are obviously leaving this sector for a reason? Is it because not as many new childminders are starting up? We are certainly noticing fewer starting out as childminders now

I was talking to a CM this week who said its getting harder and harder to get parents to use CM servces instead of group care.

Cx

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I was talking to a CM this week who said its getting harder and harder to get parents to use CM servces instead of group care.

Cx

interestingly our area seems to be bucking the trend (maybe due to high cost of full time nursery) but the childminders who work round here are booked for the next three years!

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interestingly our area seems to be bucking the trend (maybe due to high cost of full time nursery) but the childminders who work round here are booked for the next three years!

Yes Childminders here also very busy - mind you they do all offer a brilliant service - happy to pick up from us and from primary school........

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A significant number of our CMs are giving up - the latest casualty is giving up because she can earn a better income with less responsibility/paperwork etc working as a beauty therapist - she also want her "home" back.

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I think this will inevitably be the nail in the coffin for many settings, what with being expected to provide 30 hours childcare "free" and then to pay the living wage, I can't see how it will work? Yet another thing the government haven't fully thought through...

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Where are the press releases by bodies like NDNA and PLA? It is unimaginable how smaller settings (and maybe even bigger settings) will survive the double whammy of providing 30 hours at LA rates AND manage the Living Wage. If I keep our very modest pay differentials the wages bill will go up by over £1000.00 per month - where is that going to come from? Our LA FEL rate was reduced this year....... I despair. The ambition of closing the gap for disadvanted children will hardly succeed through nurseries choosing between going bankrupt or losing experienced staff in favour of modern apprentices.

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Could I ask what the difference people have between pay scales? I understand wages vary so much across the country but as an example

Between Deputy and Manager - 60p per hour difference

Between Keyworker and Deputy - 50p per hour difference

Between Assistant (non keyworker) and Keyworker - 40p per hour difference

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I was listening to a debate on the radio yesterday and a nursery manager/owner came on the radio and expressed the same concerns as you are.

 

Another small business owner asked why the implementation of the national wage couldn't be linked to the size/turnover of the business so for example Tesco and similar, banks and gloabal corporations with large profits could afford to pay staff extra but small businesses with smaller turnover face laying off staff as they just can't afford the increase.....I thought this was quite a good idea it then would give people choice to either stay where they were or seek employment elsewhere if they felt they wanted to earn the hight rate.....sometimes your working conditions etc are better than a few extra pounds or being laid off.

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Hi thumper rabbit. Our pay scale used to be all assistants min wage, deputy 50p more, then manager 50p more than deputy. So basically manager £1.00 more than min wage.

 

I did level 5 and 'negotiated' higher rates. The other problem was that assistants were getting larger percentage rise when min wage went up. So it was agreed that assistants min wage, deputy £1.00 more and manager £1.00 more than deputy. Also that any increase in percentage of min wage rise would be matched for other staff. This worked well until recently 3% increase in min wage for Oct but only 1% for other staff. This was all before the budget bombshell. Needless to say, very unhappy workplace, lots of uncertainty, people searching job sites and printing out CVs.

 

Difficult times ahead!

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Well I know for a fact if my staff looked elsewhere at Tesco's etc they would be paid less than they are now.

 

The difference between manager & dep is: £1.59 per hour

 

dep & keyworkers is £1.24

 

newest keyworker & others £1.07 (but she will eventually catch up with others)

 

her & assistant (non keyworker) 1.31.

 

This is all per hour

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Could I ask what the difference people have between pay scales? I understand wages vary so much across the country but as an example

Between Deputy and Manager - 60p per hour difference

Between Keyworker and Deputy - 50p per hour difference

Between Assistant (non keyworker) and Keyworker - 40p per hour difference

Manger - Deputy - around £2.50/hour - I, as manager, do a LOT more than anyone else - they have no major responsibility really.

Deputy - Level 3 Qualified - £1/hour

Level 3 - Level 2 - 25p

Level 2 - unqualified - 75p.

 

The committee decided these increments (only after I pointed out level 3s were being paid the same as unqualified this time last year when I took over!)

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I was listening to a debate on the radio yesterday and a nursery manager/owner came on the radio and expressed the same concerns as you are.

 

Another small business owner asked why the implementation of the national wage couldn't be linked to the size/turnover of the business so for example Tesco and similar, banks and gloabal corporations with large profits could afford to pay staff extra but small businesses with smaller turnover face laying off staff as they just can't afford the increase.....I thought this was quite a good idea it then would give people choice to either stay where they were or seek employment elsewhere if they felt they wanted to earn the hight rate.....sometimes your working conditions etc are better than a few extra pounds or being laid off.

Quite. Most of my staff don't work for the money because they are fortunate enough to not need it to live on, but because they really love what they do and want there to be a preschool in their village as there was for their own children. I'm fairly sure they would still be happy to work for their current pay, even the lady on minimum wage as they enjoy their jobs (I hope!).

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L2 > L3 = + £1 per hr

L3 > D = + £2 per hr

D > M = + £4 per hr

 

Thankfully the lowest is above 'working wage' for Apr, but could get difficult when it reaches £9.00 though the extra £1000 we will saved on paye national insurance will help, but you would have to be paying enough employers NI over a year to benefit from that, my biggest concern is a qualifying member of staff going off on long term sick pay :(

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