30 Hours "Free"

[Stargrower]

 

50 hours a week is a sickening amount of time for a child to be in care! Why is this being encouraged?

 

Maybe sickening is a bit strong? There are plenty of full daycare nurseries across the country providing high quality full time care for children, and hopefully mine is one of them. Of course, in an ideal world. all children would be able to be looked after by their families until they started school, but some parents have to work full time to make ends meet, others choose to do so for a variety of reasons, some need full time childcare because they are studying full time, some because of shift patterns. Gone are the days when mothers had to choose between having a successful career and having a family and that can only be a good thing. Having said that, we currently have very few 'daycare' children and lots and lots of funded ones, which is why money is so tight and I'm having to watch every penny. There must be a happy medium somewhere!

[sunnyday]

 

Maybe sickening is a bit strong?

Probably not the best choice of wording - however I have to say that I think that's a sad situation - maths is not my strongest point but even I can work out that is 10 hours each day.....

[lsp]

At the end of the day whatever we think about the government's offer, how it is going to be managed,the time that children spend in childcare / education we must not forget it is about parental choice. We can talk about the need to pay for mortgages, holidays, lifestyles and even food but it's adults making choices about their own children. It may be the case that most of the children who will be eligible are already attending settings for the additional hours.

[sunnyday]

At the end of the day whatever we think about the government's offer, how it is going to be managed,the time that children spend in childcare / education we must not forget it is about parental choice. We can talk about the need to pay for mortgages, holidays, lifestyles and even food but it's adults making choices about their own children. It may be the case that most of the children who will be eligible are already attending settings for the additional hours.

Always good to have a debate though - don't you think? :1b

[lsp]

Definitely!!!!!!

[Fredbear]

I have read this with a mixture of interest and sadness at the decline and constant erosion of the family unit.

I accept that some families are really struggling and have to work, I also accept that many may wish to continue with their chosen careers after having children, but there seems to be very little discussed about the fantastic role and value that parents give to very young children. And no mention of support to enable them to do so if they wish.

It all seems to centre around "back into the workforce" and children in "some type of care".

Sorry for this rant, but feeling a little deflated by the whole subject.

[lsp]

But this is a reflection on us as a society and the fact that children and their childhood appear to be so undervalued. This is demonstrated by the constant barrage by the media about the high cost and poor quality of childcare and the acceptance of the low wages. We all know how much we endeavour to give the children in our care the very best that we possibly can, which includes supporting the family unit because we understand how important that is.

 

That's my rant over!

[Rob6692]

 

Maybe sickening is a bit strong?

Maybe. I agree that high quality provision can be seen across the country and that parents have to work full time/study to make ends meet. I am not in any way trying to insult the parents that choose to do this or the providers that look after the children, I am heartbroken by a society in which this is a necessity and actively promoted. Rather than tailoring policies that seperate children from their parents, can we not put things in place to give them as much time together as possible? Having to spend 10 hours a day away from your parents at that age is horrible.

I know I strive for a utopian society (it has been pointed out many times), but it's not actually that impossible to achieve. In this day and age we are perfectly capable of offering absolutely amazing early education to our youngest citizens, we just lack a fully functioning political system that will help us to get there. Make me PM and I'll show you

[Panders]

You have my vote Rob!

[Rob6692]

haha thanks for all the support and votes, only another 30 million and I'll have a legitimate majority!

Another organization is raising concerns over the funded hours:

'Research to be published by Citizens Advice this month, based on interviews with working parents, suggests that inadequate childcare provision can have a significant impact on those trying to juggle a job with a family'

'The analysis also revealed an acute squeeze on places. About 40% of childcare providers reported that they did not have any spaces available'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/06/free-childcare-underfunding-could-threaten-changes-charity

[SueJ]

 

'The analysis also revealed an acute squeeze on places. About 40% of childcare providers reported that they did not have any spaces available'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/06/free-childcare-underfunding-could-threaten-changes-charity

 

and those that do now won't soon as if you have lots of families that qualify for the 30 hours that will in effect reduce the amount of spaces available too!

[lynned55]

Yes Sue, you're right and this is what I cannot understand. We are open for 28 hours per week, with a lgood few of our parents taking more than their 15 hours but paying for them. We currently have 46 children on the books however if they are given 30 hours then it will I imagine, reduce our intake to around 28/30 children. I've not yet heard anyone mention this.

its really not a case of just giving them 30 hours it's finding the 30 hours.

 

Another thing is we still haven't received our final funding payment yet- we've had an interim payment of approx half (except it wasn't half) If they think we can wait this long for 30 hours funding when it will be virtually all the income we have they have another think coming.

[Rob6692]

A survey by NDNA suggests that 'armies of parents' will be taking up funded places and looking for work

'80% of parents said that they would probably or definitely take all 30 free hours offered to them and 53% said they wanted to get more work as a result'

'NDNA warns better levels of funding and full consultation with the childcare sector is required to make reform a success'

'Beyond funding, we need to ensure the nursery sector is able to expand its well-trained, professional workforce to meet the new challenge and that providers can create the extra capacity that will be needed'

http://www.ndna.org.uk/NDNA/News/Press_releases_2015/Parents_aim_to_work_longer_hours_when_30_hours__free_childcare_goes_live__says_NDNA_survey.aspx

[thumperrabbit]

To add to the above post

 

.... and that nursery workers are also paid a decent wage for providing these extra hours!

 

I gave up work when I had my children (my work wasn't child related at all) but there is no way I could afford nursery fees on the pay that I now get as a pre-school manager.

[Fredbear]

Another example of an ill thought out change without any consultation with the people at the grass roots.

I love my job, the children are amazing, but I'm not sure how long I can continue to watch families lives eroded by political nonsense.:(

[Panders]

A survey by NDNA suggests that 'armies of parents' will be taking up funded places and looking for work

'80% of parents said that they would probably or definitely take all 30 free hours offered to them and 53% said they wanted to get more work as a result'

'NDNA warns better levels of funding and full consultation with the childcare sector is required to make reform a success'

'Beyond funding, we need to ensure the nursery sector is able to expand its well-trained, professional workforce to meet the new challenge and that providers can create the extra capacity that will be needed'

http://www.ndna.org.uk/NDNA/News/Press_releases_2015/Parents_aim_to_work_longer_hours_when_30_hours__free_childcare_goes_live__says_NDNA_survey.aspx

80% of how many polled?

[sunnyday]

A survey by NDNA suggests that 'armies of parents' will be taking up funded places and looking for work

'80% of parents said that they would probably or definitely take all 30 free hours offered to them and 53% said they wanted to get more work as a result'

'NDNA warns better levels of funding and full consultation with the childcare sector is required to make reform a success'

'Beyond funding, we need to ensure the nursery sector is able to expand its well-trained, professional workforce to meet the new challenge and that providers can create the extra capacity that will be needed'

http://www.ndna.org.uk/NDNA/News/Press_releases_2015/Parents_aim_to_work_longer_hours_when_30_hours__free_childcare_goes_live__says_NDNA_survey.aspx

 

That was interesting to read - thanks for adding the link :1b

 

The paragraph about needing funded hours beyond term time made me smile - what happens then when the children start school...........oh perhaps schools will open 52 weeks of the year too :1b

[SueJ]

A very interesting read - thanks for putting the link to the article.

 

It will be interesting to see if they will allow the 30 hours to be stretched over the year e.g. parents could have just under 22 hours per week funded.

 

We are currently term time only offering a 5 hour session each week day. Last year trialled opening for an extra hour per session and put out the offer of opening through the half terms and up until the end of July as a sort of halfway house between term time and full time - we had very few takers and certainly not enough to make it sustainable as the extra time would have had to be paid for (most of the children attending only access their funded hours with only 2 out of 51 children having extra hours).

 

I see the NDNA are pushing for this consultation I just hope that it is not a "fait accomplis" like so many have been of late :wacko:

[Mouseketeer]

Head still firmly buried in sand here....maybe I should start planning which 30 of the 70+ on register I'll keep for 30 hours a week and which I should give notice to

[Cait]

I suppose it can't happen this coming September, some settings could factor it in for the following September, but what on earth is going to happen?? He has promised it, and if settings can't deliver, WE are perceived as the ones at fault!

[Rob6692]

80% of how many polled?

'NDNA and Netmums surveyed 1,000 parents and carers of under 5s across the UK. 95% of respondents were mums and 71% of families already use day nurseries, England’s most popular childcare option. 81% were in households with two working parents'

 

It seems there are so many diverse and far-reaching issues this proposal faces I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen. It just doesn't look like it can be plausibly introduced without massive detrimental side effects.

[Rob6692]

As we've touched on previously, 'recruitment of skilled workforce in the nursery sector is a major barrier to making Government's 30 hours free childcare expansion a success' according to NDNA.

'“We’re seeing situations in which lower-grade staff who picked childcare as their career of choice are leaving because they can earn more at employers like supermarkets that offer more family-friendly hours and less pressure.
“We are seeing Early Years Teachers moving to school nursery settings for better pay and shorter hours. Nurseries would love to pay their staff more but funding shortfalls constrain what they can afford.”
A third of respondents said there were not enough applicants qualified to level three applying for vacant positions and that low pay was given as a reason for the lack of suitable candidates'

http://www.ndna.org.uk/NDNA/News/Press_releases_2015/Recruitment_of_skilled_workforce_in_the_nursery_sector_is_a_major_barrier_to_making_Government_s_30_.aspx

[mundia]

I certainly believe this is true, many of our settings report being unable to recruit good level 3 staff.I have to say it's my biggest worry that we may return to the days of not having many qualification requirements to work in 'childcare' or at least see a lifting of current qualified ratios. We are already seeing this in schools especially academies and free schools that don't need to appoint qualified teachers. I see something similar happening in the sector in the future.

 

its one of those situations where I hope my inkling is completely wrong and I'm being far too cynical. Time will tell then.

[hali]

Our day cares are now struggling to have any applicants apply never mind level 3 or good quality applicants....

[Panders]

'NDNA and Netmums surveyed 1,000 parents and carers of under 5s across the UK. 95% of respondents were mums and 71% of families already use day nurseries, England’s most popular childcare option. 81% were in households with two working parents'

 

It seems there are so many diverse and far-reaching issues this proposal faces I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen. It just doesn't look like it can be plausibly introduced without massive detrimental side effects.

Do we think 1,000 people is enough to go on though - this is what I mean - 80% sounds a lot and to be fair, if somebody asked me umpteen years ago if the hours of funding should be increased off the top of my head I may well have said yes - without perhaps fully understanding what "rules and regulations" would be put it place. I wouldn't have wanted them for my family, but for the good of all I suppose. A 1,000 households is a drop in the ocean to giving a proper understanding of how many would actually be able to make use of this option in reality.

[Rob6692]

Do we think 1,000 people is enough to go on though

I don't think it can be used as a fair representation of the population, but it still offers valuable insight into the thoughts and feelings of parents and cannot be disregarded.

The 80% didn't say that the hours should be increased, they said they would utilise them if they were. Even if 80% is double the real figure, that's still millions of parents hoping to use the extra hours and looking for more work

[lynned55]

There are at the moment, so many questions arent there?

 

How are we expected to accommodate 30 hours

Where do the extra staff probably needed come from

As someone has said which half of our children get it and

which half get notice

If both parents have to work to qualify- who polices this

what happens when their hours reduce, from a business point of view we couldnt just afford to half someone's hours

what about the parent on jobseekers who is actively seeking work

how much per hour are they going to pay, to make this financially viable for groups

are we going to be able to opt out and just continue to offer 15

 

These are just a few of the questions that I really hope will be asked/answered in the consultation- but I bet they're not.

[lsp]

Another question - who is going to be looking after these children (and their siblings) during school holidays if they are using settings that only open during get term time? Maybe it's another way or government to increase the number of low paid childcare professionals- ideal career path for people who want to work when children at school!!!!!

[Rafa]

Notice 'Dave's' gone quiet on this! Wonder if he's asking himself those questions???