diesel10 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Anyone that deals with admissions will know the type of phone call, email. that we get at this time of year. 'Jonny is 3 in February and I will increase his hours after Easter' And my response, of course is yes, what sessions would you like. But unfortunately, I haven't been able to keep open empty just so Jonny can have his extra hours. What do you do? Do the government really expect us to keep places open for them, losing £4 an hour or tell someone else they can't have a place now. Although I do feel sorry for them as its all the Autumn children that get all the preference and we do our best to accommodate all the existing children. What do others do? and when will the government realise that we can't leave places all year and overflow in the summer term.
Foreveryoung Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I hate this time of year! i always feel awful in turning away new parents, but we are same we don't keep places open for Easter starters we have a few each year who when you contact them they don't then want a place which I don't mind at all it's fine but how can you keep a place open for 'potential' children. You carnt secure it with a deposit if it's funded only so no security the place will be taken anyway. I do tell all Easter childrens parents when they enquire and put names on waiting list that they will most definitely struggle for sessions till September. I always feel guiltily when I carnt offer a place
Melba Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 We have never really had that before this year. Usually we fit everyone in somewhere even of not exactly what they want. This year we are busier than we have ever been and a potential 200 new houses in the village mean that is not likely to change.
blondie Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have a example of this - a parent dropped his child in for a morning session - he didn't turn up at mid morning to collect so i phoned him. He said - "well I signed that form (funding form) and it said i could have 15 hours so ***** is staying all day today" i was flabbergasted - i said that yes his child was eligible for 15 hours funding but we had to have the sessions available - he wasn't happy - i asked him to come and collect *****. He said "so ***** can;t stay then?" "NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO" LOL 1
louby loo Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The trouble is it sort of becomes a vicious circle - If they find somewhere else now, when it comes to September they are settled elsewhere so you lose them long-term We try and offer new places rather than 'up' sessions of existing children if we have children that are moving house etc at this time of year for this very reason.
louby loo Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have a example of this - a parent dropped his child in for a morning session - he didn't turn up at mid morning to collect so i phoned him. He said - "well I signed that form (funding form) and it said i could have 15 hours so ***** is staying all day today" i was flabbergasted - i said that yes his child was eligible for 15 hours funding but we had to have the sessions available - he wasn't happy - i asked him to come and collect *****. He said "so ***** can;t stay then?" "NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO" LOL This reminds me of when we had a Z list celebrity wanting a place - When I said sorry we're full at the moment, he replied 'well can I just buy a place?' ... (This was when we could only have a set amount of places).. I felt like saying 'yes of course you can- which child shall I chuck out to make room?' :blink: 1
Rea Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Well, unfortunately our waiting list is really poor this year so we can accommodate anyone and everyone but normally we fill places by the waiting list and extra sessions are on an availability basis. We also charge a deposit, I asked our EY dept and they said because its a charge to everyone regardless of age its ok, so I'm sticking with that. It helps people to think about letting us know if they dont want the place and they also get a free session and a T-shirt when they start so they kind of get it back.
zigzag Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 We were having this exact discussion this morning. We are full now and cannot take any more new children or increase any sessions until September. (unless we open more afternoons. It does seem unfair that the children cannot access all their hours but their is no way that we could keep places just for this. When my son was at pre-school, he did not receive four year old funding until about his last term, so I had to pay until then. These parents really do not know how lucky they are. And I am finding that they all seem to expect everything as their right, which I find incredibly frustrating. I am sure parents were nicer and better parents in the "good old days" Even had a parent kick up a fuss because we asked her to pop in to sign the funding form as it has to be in tomorrow, her attitude..just send it in late and get the money later!! If only we could afford to do this. 1
bubblejack Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) When I still have spaces in the autumn term I make parents aware that if they want to access the 15 hours when their child is funded they might like to think about paying for the extra sessions once their child is settled, usually by October half term. This way the choice is theirs .If they ask for extra hours in the Spring /summer term I remind them of this but offer an alternative.Our sessions are only 2.5 hours for younger children .If I don't have extra sessions I offer to let the child stay to lunch and /or come in at half 8 with some of the older children. Edited January 21, 2015 by bubblejack
Cait Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 It doesn't seem to matter how well you think you have explained about the entitlement session availability, there will always be parents who think that it doesn't apply to their child, and you will magically find spaces to accommodate them, because they are 'entitled to 15hrs' . I had it every year. Letters were sent out at the start of December, inviting parents to give an idea of what sessions they were likely to want in the next year, and whether they wanted their full 15 hour entitlement. Places were allocated on a first come first served basis, so anyone who dragged their heels had to take what was left. I made it quite clear that I would be opening places to new children who applied for the coming September from January, so if they hadn't got their booking in by then, it could be unlikely that they would get their choice of sessions. I DID remind parents who hadn't let me know by Christmas, but after that, I'm afraid 'you snooze, you lose!' They would then only have the sessions their child was currently attending offered to them, and go on a waiting list for any additional sessions. I understood that for some parents, knowing what they might want that far ahead was quite tricky, but I encouraged them to book possibly more than they needed, and then drop them nearer the time when they knew more about their needs. This is where the waiting list children could be lucky! 2
Mouseketeer Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Glad this isn't just my headache ....which part of 'we're full' don't they get, they nod and say they understand I can't do anything until September then bombard me with emails and phone calls asking if I found anything or have I had a chance to look at it ...they don't get that it doesn't improve, just gets worse until sept
thumperrabbit Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 . When my son was at pre-school, he did not receive four year old funding until about his last term, so I had to pay until then. These parents really do not know how lucky they are. And I am finding that they all seem to expect everything as their right, which I find incredibly frustrating. I am sure parents were nicer and better parents in the "good old days" . Oh Zigzg, you could be me today I am absolutely fuming (steam coming from everywhere) with the attitude of our parents this year - it is like they are 'in charge' and we should just bow and say yes miss whatever miss and actually it's not just the parents the children treat us like that too I must've had at least 6 very difficult conversations today about behaviour, non-payment of fees, and parents expecting more hours after February half term, even when I warned them in December that there would be new starters in January if they didn't increase their hours. And if anyone else from the LEA tells me to just take on more staff, well I shall just stamp my feet :angry: I'm still feeling too cross to even think about work tomorrow :angry: :angry:
tish501 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Same here...parents expect us to answer to them..childrens' attitude no better. I have a parent owing fees from last year...loath to even give them their funding form....one parent put 10 hrs (2x5 hrs ) although her son does 3x5.,.........when I asked her to fill another new form out...she scowled at me as though my fault.....others wander in off the street...'I have my letter re my 2 year olds free 15 hrs...when can he/she start...tomorrow..?? '.err no....no spaces....all this is wearing us all down,......i get too cross too to go into work.......one mother allowed to pay her !£170 in £20 weekly since new year....guess how many made.....you guessed it absolutely none.....phew.....is it worth it all ??'
Cait Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Offering you all my virtual shoulder to lean on and huge sympathies, it's the part of the job we hate the most, I guess. 3
sunnyday Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Oh Zigzg, you could be me today I am absolutely fuming (steam coming from everywhere) with the attitude of our parents this year - it is like they are 'in charge' and we should just bow and say yes miss whatever miss and actually it's not just the parents the children treat us like that too I must've had at least 6 very difficult conversations today about behaviour, non-payment of fees, and parents expecting more hours after February half term, even when I warned them in December that there would be new starters in January if they didn't increase their hours. And if anyone else from the LEA tells me to just take on more staff, well I shall just stamp my feet :angry: I'm still feeling too cross to even think about work tomorrow :angry: :angry: Poor you - sending a huge hug x As for the original post........it's a huge problem every year for me - and I know that I have explained very carefully how it all works - wish I had an answer but I don't think there is one....... 2
zigzag Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 As we are venting our frustrations, despite two very well displayed posters about applying for school places and leaflets given to all parents, we still had one mother miss the deadline and blame us. She was very rude to my administrator which I am really cross about. She has a child in school so is not totally in the dark about the process. Can't help but feel that all this is just another nail in my working at pre school coffin, they seem to be coming in thick and fast these days!!
finleysmaid Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 As we are venting our frustrations, despite two very well displayed posters about applying for school places and leaflets given to all parents, we still had one mother miss the deadline and blame us. She was very rude to my administrator which I am really cross about. She has a child in school so is not totally in the dark about the process. Can't help but feel that all this is just another nail in my working at pre school coffin, they seem to be coming in thick and fast these days!! i can beat this story...had a parent in last week and asked if they have applied for school....no he said he's not due to go in september. I assured him he was and checked the register as i was talking to him. Gave him a lecture about getting it done NOW (deadline day!!!) . Why was i so cross? this is the THIRD child from the same family and the THIRD time he has done a late application for school .....the first stayed with us and went into year 1 the second got his place on the last day of term (only due to me) and then this!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG! 3
Guest Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I wish I had this problem! We have loads of spaces, just can't seem to fill them up! Humph!
thumperrabbit Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I wish I had this problem! We have loads of spaces, just can't seem to fill them up! Humph! Katie we have been like you for the last 2-3 years and I honestly thought that this year would be our last! What's happened in our area is that the 2yr funding has increased the numbers in, should I say the more deprived areas, which has pushed the fee paying parents further afield!! children are now travelling further to get to us, but we are turning people away now! 1
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Thanks Thumper, its good to know that I am not alone!
Fredbear Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 We had a late admission for a school place last year. Fortunately they were able to get a late place at another school and the family are happy, not convinced grateful. This is despite newsletters, posters and a text from us. While we are growling had a child at lunch club who hadn't brought in a drink today. On mums arrival I politely said hello as I always do, said how very much her daughter is enjoying the experience of the lunch club session, and if she could bring in a water bottle that would be great. Could tell from mums expression she wasn't happy with my comment, even though I explained I know it's only water, but it's more about the experience of opening, closing the container etc. sometimes you can't do right for wrong. Sorry groan over, have a super relaxing weekend everybody. 1
Mouseketeer Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 It just seems to be a constant battle with parents not carrying out simple requests at the moment or putting stupid demands on you as if you only have their child to look after all day, a notoriously late payer paid all their terms fees yesterday, I was in shock until seeing the email later telling me her son would be in this day and that day after Easter ....so wanted to just send 'yeah dream on' as a reply
thumperrabbit Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Out of interest how many of you would take on extra staff to meet these demands? Or would you just say sorry no we are full until September? I have started to say we are full, my advisor 'advises' B) that we should take on temporary staff to accommodate them - but that would be me having to make redundancies at the end of July. 95% of these children leave us as they've turned 3 and go to school nursery.
Fredbear Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Crumbs that's hard Thumperrabbit. We already take thirty children per session, 6 sessions per week, so not an option for us really. Looking at our list at the moment we have potentially 81 children wanting to come to us in September, it's a nightmare trying to accommodate all.
Mouseketeer Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 OMG !! Fredbear thats loads Thumperrabbit..i'd be uncomfortable taking on staff just to let ago again July, by the time you have gone through the whole recruitment process (bit like committee dbs) it'll be for about a term and half tops, ratio wise we could take a few more, I'm trying to limit 2 yr olds per session, (i think government have cut off their noses to spite their face so to speak, they're pushing more and more 2 year olds in at the expense of the funded 3's getting their allocation), but most days we have 1 or 2 children requiring complete support with no extra help, which means 7x 3 yr olds i can't bring in if a member of staff is having to be on top of one child all the time, one has portage at home, but we've been told there's no hope of extra funding as there is no diagnosis or other parents don't want to hear it, how unfair is this on settings trying to get by, I'm considering a get out clause if after a reasonable period we feel there is an SEN need that we can't support within normal adult:child ratio's, the parent will support an application for inclusion funding or fund the extra support needed themselves if the child is to continue....harsh i know but this is no longer the exception more the norm.
thumperrabbit Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 OMG !! Fredbear thats loads Thumperrabbit..i'd be uncomfortable taking on staff just to let ago again July, by the time you have gone through the whole recruitment process (bit like committee dbs) it'll be for about a term and half tops, Yes I'm sticking to my guns about it, the thought of DBS is enough to put me off!! - I just wondered if others did recruit. The other thing is you can't give temporary staff a key group of children when you know they will be leaving so that's unfair too and I don't think staff having key groups of 12/13 children is fair there's no way every child would get some attention in the 3 hour session that we are open. 3
sunnyday Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 I just wondered if others did recruit. No chance! 2
Fredbear Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 No new recruits, but existing staff may do additional sessions at different parts of the year, as well to support individual children. 1
Mouseketeer Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 but how is it fair that we incur extra staffing costs to support children with SEN ? I guess as long as we keep doing it our counties are happy to let us 1
Fredbear Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Sometimes it's not just children with SEN. It can just be a large cohort of children in on the same day, that require eyes in the back of our head moments.:) 1
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