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Fee increases and 30 hours


Stargrower
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Our funding is being cut by 7.5% from 1st April in order to fund the 30 hours offer. (A bit previous if you ask me, 30 hours starts in September!)

 

I am in the process of looking at increasing our fees but if I put them up by 7.5% this will price us out of the market I think.

 

I read on another site that some settings are going to start charging for snacks, wipes, etc but this isn't the right way for us and, to be honest, wouldn't bring in enough income anyway.

 

I wondered what others are doing? Are you increasing fees or not offering 30 hours? Or perhaps you are lucky and are not taking a cut in funding!

 

If you are increasing fees, have you decided by how much? Will it help recoup the money you will lose from under-funding?

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Our current fee is £4.60 an hour, our funding rate from april is £3.82... at the moment i charge £10 a term for snacks - or parents can supply their own. I'm considering upping this to £10 per half term from september. I'm not comfortable with charging for any other items. I asked my parents if they'd be willing to pay a voluntary top up most said yes, but in reality i'm not sure if they will. I'd only do this for children attending over the 15 hours.

I'm probably going to put my hourly rate up by 20p an hour.

I need to start making some decisions!!

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Our current fee is £4.60 an hour, our funding rate from april is £3.82...

these figures are truly appauling...are you going to be able to keep sustainable at this rate? especially as there will be no increase for the next 3 years??

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these figures are truly appauling...are you going to be able to keep sustainable at this rate? especially as there will be no increase for the next 3 years??

We are getting another increase next year Finley....

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these figures are truly appauling...are you going to be able to keep sustainable at this rate? especially as there will be no increase for the next 3 years??

 

These figures are the same for us. We currently get £4.25 from the LA and this will reduce to £3.85 from 1st April. We are a full daycare setting so I am going to have to increase fees for non-funded children to keep our heads above water. With the end of the quality premium we received as well as the Living Wage, Workplace Pensions, Business Rates increase etc etc its a very scary time. My staff deserve a pay increase but it just isn't possible. :(

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these figures are truly appauling...are you going to be able to keep sustainable at this rate? especially as there will be no increase for the next 3 years??

It's terrible isn't it. We have been on £3.52 since 2005 so this is good! Lincolnshire is receiving the lowest rate the gov can give. We are going to have to be more careful over what we spend on resources which is sad as we currently put a lot back in to the business.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Our current fee is £4.60 an hour, our funding rate from april is £3.82... at the moment i charge £10 a term for snacks - or parents can supply their own. I'm considering upping this to £10 per half term from september. I'm not comfortable with charging for any other items. I asked my parents if they'd be willing to pay a voluntary top up most said yes, but in reality i'm not sure if they will. I'd only do this for children attending over the 15 hours.

I'm probably going to put my hourly rate up by 20p an hour.

I need to start making some decisions!!

 

I am planning to go additional services route, but it doesn't work if it's a voluntary payment as won't enable me to cover the cost of offering 30 hours due to the difference between our hourly rate and the funding.

I am concerned that even if current parents and those starting in September understand and are willing to pay this amount, parents in 2018 and 2019 may not be prepared to do this, then it all goes pear-shaped immediately!

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Stargrower can you stretch your funding over the whole year which may give the opportunity to charge for some hours?

 

Yes, we will be doing this. We are unlucky to be the second lowest funded LA in the country, but lucky in some respects as being full daycare, we have the buffer of stretching hours and having children too young to be eligible for funding.

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We are introducing a 'voluntary' charge for snacks. Only one parent has declined so has the option to provide their own fruit. We will increase fees in Sept but this is also limited by the price charged by surrounding groups. We are term time only so cannot stretch the hours. We will offer the 30 hours because we cannot afford not to. We are rarely completely full so basically need to fill spaces. Our new funding rate is 5 pence more than our fees, per hour. Although it is less than we were getting.

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It's a mine field! We are term time only and it's a logistical nightmare trying to figure out what is best to do. The majority of ours don't want the 30 hours so we are offering 24, however we have had a lot of enquiries recently for Sept but they only want 15 hours. I don't want to jam up with 15 hourers as I will be stuck then when others come along and want the 24 hours. So I'm thinking of limiting how many places I have for 15 hours....not to mention the 2 year old places! But of course we have to pay the bills!!

 

This is similar to what happened last year.....numbers dropped, then a lot of funded 2 year olds came along so I took them (had to pay the bills) and then I was stuck when we had an influx of 3 year olds, with limited spaces! It's hard to know what is best - I just wish there was a formula I could look at lol.

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  • 1 month later...

OK so LEA has today sent me the agreement (ive already sorted all of my September intake!)

its sound like the model we want to use (session..lunch...session) is NOT going to be allowed but without charging the £30 a week for lunch club we will be losing money...arrrgg anyone got any other ideas . My parents will not pay for additional hours unless I do it this way so now I'm stuck!

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OK so LEA has today sent me the agreement (ive already sorted all of my September intake!)

its sound like the model we want to use (session..lunch...session) is NOT going to be allowed but without charging the £30 a week for lunch club we will be losing money...arrrgg anyone got any other ideas . My parents will not pay for additional hours unless I do it this way so now I'm stuck!

Why are you not going to be allowed to run like that?
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OK so LEA has today sent me the agreement (ive already sorted all of my September intake!)

its sound like the model we want to use (session..lunch...session) is NOT going to be allowed but without charging the £30 a week for lunch club we will be losing money...arrrgg anyone got any other ideas . My parents will not pay for additional hours unless I do it this way so now I'm stuck!

 

Challenge this finleysmaid - as it isn't in the DFE guidance! Our LA have said that we should be charging for meals/lunch clubs! If this is your model and parents are in agreement then I didn't think the LA could interfere (also in the agreement). The only thing it says is that meal charges cannot be compulsory settings having to look at other options. Other option may be a filler session in an afternoon that does not cover the lunch period for example of which you may only have 1 per day and once it's gone parents will have to look elsewhere or take the session available which included lunch - bring a packed lunch but pay for the care! It sounds very harsh but where will you be finleysmaid if you continually operate at a loss?

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I have to admit that I am very glad that we are currently not planning to offer the 30 hours, it seems a complete nightmare. It is truly terrible that providers are being put in this position trying to work out how to keep their heads above the water line whilst trying to do the right thing by offering the places.

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23. Children taking up just their free hours should be able to take them up as part of continuous provision and providers should avoid artificial breaks in the day wherever possible. For example, the lunch time hour/session should form part of the free provision where the child is attending a morning and afternoon session.

25. Providers can offer parents the option of taking up their free hours at any time (between 6am and 8pm) or they can allocate the free hours to specified times/sessions.

So these are the two points I am having issues with (I have emailed the LEA today to get clarification!) so we have ALLOCATED am and pm session with the option of taking children out over the lunch period. This is the way we have run for 6 years so I don't consider it is an artificial break.

I will be challenging it Pasey because without charging the £6 for lunch we would run at a deficit which we can't do. All the parents who have been offered 30 hours have taken it up on this basis and are very happy that they will pay only £30 for 32.5 hours

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Hi All

 

I have a quick question, to those of you that will be limiting places or not offering the 30 hours.

 

If a parent came to you wanting to take 15 hours at your setting, but the extended 15 hours as their child goes to an additional setting for the universal, would you except them or the funding?

 

i'm just thinking, we are a pack away and can only offer 24 hours per week, maybe limiting it to a certain amount of children and what I don't want to happen is parents thinking they can come to us for their extended hours.

 

thanks

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I think it would depend if you needed them or not to fill your spaces, if you have enough children already wanting to extend or children on your waiting list who will want to start with you then I would say no, they will also want to dictate what days/hours they have with you as already established in their first setting. It's a right headache isn't it :-/

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OK so LEA has today sent me the agreement (ive already sorted all of my September intake!)

its sound like the model we want to use (session..lunch...session) is NOT going to be allowed but without charging the £30 a week for lunch club we will be losing money...arrrgg anyone got any other ideas . My parents will not pay for additional hours unless I do it this way so now I'm stuck!

Dear fm - what a flippin' nightmare for you - really hope that you can find a way around this x

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I really am going to have to start looking at this properly now aren't I ? :blink:

 

To be honest I really don't think this is going to effect us much, as we don't really have many working parents as such.

 

Currently we only have one parent for September that would qualify- but as we only open 21 hours, I guess they might want the full 30 somewhere else.

 

I really need to get my head around it though- as you never know what may be around the corner... :o :lol:

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so this is the reply (edited !!)

 

 

all providers (taking funded children) must have an unconditional model/offer for parents who just want to access their free entitlement hours, which should (wherever possible) be continuous provision

In other words you must offer some (unconditional) places to children who just want to attend for 15 or 30 hours and no more.

 

 

I have highlighted the wherever possible ....we are offering an unconditional model of two funded sessions and take your child out for lunch!!! so I'm going for it. TBH they can either have what I'm offering or we pull out of funded 30 hour places.!!

I have booked all the parents in and they have accepted so tuff ****!

I know its not in the spirit of things but they can have an outstanding setting offering places or a failed business....no contest I think!

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Well - so much to digest.

 

We are currently open for 30 hours a week plus 45 minutes each day lunch club. Parents currently pay for lunch club (pack lunches) to cover staff costs. Under the extended offer, this must become voluntary so I have an issue like you FM. I have been told that to make the parents collect 45 minutes early is not in the 'spirit' of the offer! As has been said elsewhere it is impractical for parents to pick up at lunchtime, so how else can we offer it without charging for it?

 

Funding wise I'm lucky - our hourly rate is going up from £3.67 to £5.00 (with flexibility). I am also increasing fees to tie with this so our hourly rate is going up 67p an hour. This is alongside a relocation so I feel this is justified as we will be offering enhanced provision. We will now be able to offer breakfast and after preschool clubs, so may have to use this to subsidise lunch, but that hardly seems fair.

 

My current thoughts are to only hold a fixed number of two year old, three plus year old universal and three plus year old extended places. Anyone wanting two afternoons for example for a two year old will have to either fit in with someone who wants three afternoons, on the understanding that they may not be able to extend their hours when entitled to funding or stump up for five sessions. Crikey - what a headache!

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I am losing the will!!

 

We charge £4.10 per hour our funded rate has gone up to £4, 10p short.

 

I have worked it out that losing just 10p per hour on 15 hours funding we will have lost £1007.00 this year, £57 per child per year, the more our rate goes up the more we lose! Never mind the extended hours!!!!

 

More number crunching I think

 

Thanks

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so this is the reply (edited !!)

 

 

all providers (taking funded children) must have an unconditional model/offer for parents who just want to access their free entitlement hours, which should (wherever possible) be continuous provision

In other words you must offer some (unconditional) places to children who just want to attend for 15 or 30 hours and no more.

 

 

I have highlighted the wherever possible ....we are offering an unconditional model of two funded sessions and take your child out for lunch!!! so I'm going for it. TBH they can either have what I'm offering or we pull out of funded 30 hour places.!!

I have booked all the parents in and they have accepted so tuff ****!

I know its not in the spirit of things but they can have an outstanding setting offering places or a failed business....no contest I think!

Go for it :1b

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