Any managers out there that feel they cant win with staff

[Guest]

Any manager like me that works full time, is kind and helpful to everyone...staff...parents..children. Is a bit of a pushover and feel that in particularly with staff cant win no matter what I do......

 

I work 5 full days a week and do a lot in my own time...from planning to getting better qualified and just beginning to feel like I said.

 

I also believe that our jobs are changing fast and that some staff are unwilling to change. I dont personal believe in qualifications are important but as regards ratios they are.

 

More and more being put on small groups like ours....

 

Pensions, living wage, staff qualifications, dealing with staff, appraisals, mentoring etc........

 

Sorry to moan ........

[narnia]

Moan away, Wendy123...........................I feel the same ( many of us do!)........and I am getting to the point where I think my days are numbered. Retirement looms and that will mean closure of our lovely little group. Beaurocracy wins, I fear

[flowlow]

Moan away Wendy123 I feel just the same. It is a funny old sector at the moment.

[sunnyday]

Bless you Wendy123 - it's bloomin' tough 'at the top' - wish I had something more helpful to add - I don't - but I do empathise with you......

[LKeyteach]

I've been running this business for 5 years now. Built the team got them through quals & educated them bout children being individuals, parents too and they are a great team.

I feel I have done a rather good job. I have to say that cos no one else will.

my motivation has all come from myself and had hoped that some of that would rub off. For some of team it has but there are 1 or 2 that constantly need pushing and will only do if there is tangible reward at end (money).

I do mostly like what I do but at present feel a little lost. Don't really have anything on development plan that shows moving forward other just than keeping up with legislative changes.

There has been an expansion of nursery market in my area with all of us running low occupancy. Someone has got to give in. I still have some fight in me so going to keep going.

Thank you for allowing me my rant. And I accept management can be really lonely cos you can't tell everyone all your fears. They would think me mad!

But told you some.

[Stargrower]

There are so many of us that feel this way at the moment. I don't really have any advice - or I would be taking it myself!

But thank goodness for this forum, where we can rant, moan, share and confide, knowing there is someone out there feeling the same, as well as others who can give words of wisdom and support.

[LKeyteach]

I agree. Well said.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone. Means a lot to know that other managers feel the same.....

[GFCCCC]

I often get frustrated at those staff whose attitude clearly conveys that it's 'just a job' Now I don't expect anyone to work in their own time or be forced to stay late etc. etc. but I do wish they would sometimes show a bit more enthusiasm and commitment. Most of our practitioners are good and very knowledgeable but only seem to want to do just enough to get through the day and go home. I find it sad and well remember 20 odd years ago when staff used to be coming in to work very excited to have read something new/collected resources/come up with new ideas for activities or been to the library for special books etc. - Is it the level of bureaucracy; the caliber of people coming into the profession; the quality of the current training or just the reality of young people in todays society with a complete different work ethic?

[blondie]

think we all feel the same. It seems no matter what we do, how many hours we spend(in our own time) it never seems to be enough.

feel so much pressure and never have enough time to do what i need - a member of staff left before christmas and the committee decided no replacement which means i have to be in ratio more now.

staff unhappy as they never seem to have enough time to do what they need to and sometimes they say they feel they are just managing the children rather than anything else.

sad times for all i think.

[Guest]

Lots of like this for these comments but don't really want to like it! Basically agreeing with everyone.

 

My setting will be changing this year, and I am seriously thinking of asking if I can step down as manager. I am sure I would make a great assistant! They will have to look at recruiting more staff as opening hours doubling but I don't want anymore than what I am doing now (mornings). So thinking it might be an ideal time so that they can then recruit for a full time manager. I want my family life back (without the constant worry of if I am doing enough), I want to enjoy being with the children and not have all the responsibilities of manager and all that that entails. I hate managing people (which is probably why I do most of it myself). I am getting to that stage in my life where I should be taking it a bit more easy and want to enjoy it again not just look forward to the next holiday. To be honest there is only a £1/hr difference between me and the deputy and she does nothing compared to my role. The more I think about it the more I want to do it. Either that or set myself up as a supply staff with all my local groups or even join an agency??!!

 

Just not sure how to put it to my committee??!!

[lsp]

Perhaps we need an agree option rather than or as well as like???

[flowlow]

With so many of us feeling this way and there is probably more that either aren't lucky enough to find their way to FSF or don't want to say, what is it we need to you think? I am looking for a new venture maybe finding some way to help us all could be it?!? so what do we need everyone?

[Mouseketeer]

'To be honest there is only a £1/hr difference between me and the deputy and she does nothing compared to my role'.

 

I think this to marley, my difference is a little more but really not enough for the extra work and responsibility that comes with manager and quite often rather than supporting me I feel that they think their role is to champion other members of staff little gripes and question every change/improvement I want to introduce with some negative comment....reading another site about what some Deputy's do I was amazed and actually wondered what their managers must do :-(

[sunnyday]

With so many of us feeling this way and there is probably more that either aren't lucky enough to find their way to FSF or don't want to say, what is it we need to you think? I am looking for a new venture maybe finding some way to help us all could be it?!? so what do we need everyone?

I know that I need an Administrator - trouble is I couldn't afford to pay anyone to take on the role (I'm an owner/manager)

[Guest]

'To be honest there is only a £1/hr difference between me and the deputy and she does nothing compared to my role'.

 

I think this to marley, my difference is a little more but really not enough for the extra work and responsibility that comes with manager and quite often rather than supporting me I feel that they think their role is to champion other members of staff little gripes and question every change/improvement I want to introduce with some negative comment....reading another site about what some Deputy's do I was amazed and actually wondered what their managers must do :-(

There is only £1.20 difference between myself and the lowest qualified member of staff and that will change with the living wage. My deputy is currently does not a lot but is on living wage so she has already said that she wants a pay increase and I agree she is level 3. S where does that leave me? getting a pay rise too ::1a

i agree to with you trying to change things too. At times i feel like there is no point ......

[Mouseketeer]

That is terrible, my deputy rate is £3.00 more per hr than other L3s and they are above the living wage already.

 

You definately need a pay increase, I would not be happy to have the scale rates close up !

[Stargrower]

That is terrible, my deputy rate is £3.00 more per hr than other L3s and they are above the living wage already.

 

You definately need a pay increase, I would not be happy to have the scale rates close up !

 

My pay scales are about the same as this, with deputy on about £3 more per hour. I agree that pay scales shouldn't become closer but in reality, I can't afford to give everyone a pay rise at the same rate as the increase to living wage. I need an administrator too, but can't afford that either.

[Mouseketeer]

We always ran one over ratio (exc me), this isn't a luxury we have now, it caused a bit of moaning but the option was stay over staff or be paid a better rate for the job you do :-)

[Rafa]

With so many of us feeling this way and there is probably more that either aren't lucky enough to find their way to FSF or don't want to say, what is it we need to you think? I am looking for a new venture maybe finding some way to help us all could be it?!? so what do we need everyone?

 

Someone in Government thst understands that Good Quality settings need More Money!! I'll vote for you flowlow!

[zigzag]

Did anyone see the interview on GMB yesterday morning with a nursery owner about the 30 hours? Is it just me or does it seem that everyone seems to think we are being unreasonable and greedy when we say that we cannot afford to run 30 hours on the funding level at present. Think that this is being reported in a very biased way, have to say the owner did do a good job of explaining the sectors side. I also intend to persuade the committee to increase everyone's wages when the living wage is introduced as the member of staff that it affects actually does not deserve a pay rise, but all the rest of the staff actually do.

[Guest]

I wonder what would happen if EVERY early years setting refused to sign up for the 30 hours? It would have to be every one without exception mind you to make it effective!! What then? We all sign into these contracts whether they are for 15 or 30 hours through fear of losing our children to other settings who do offer it - if nobody did, what then?

 

At a recent briefing the recent government consultation had discovered we were told that over I think it was 75% of settings were not using effective (minimum) ratios further suggesting that it is not the fact that we are not paid enough, but that we choose to over staff!! They were making particular reference to the graduate 1:13 ratio (school hours only of course!!), you can imagine how this was received without me elaborating!!! I find it incredible that they cannot understand why the sector as a whole is poorly paid, regardless of level of education and actually think that the current system does nothing more than maintain the status quo! Unbelievable - I dread to think where this will all end!!

 

Rant officially over!!!

[louby loo]

 

 

75% of settings were not using effective (minimum) ratios further suggesting that it is not the fact that we are not paid enough, but that we choose to over staff!! They were making particular reference to the graduate 1:13 ratio (school hours only of course!!), you can imagine how this was received without me elaborating!!!

 

Rant officially over!!!

 

Keep ranting. We were told during an inspection that if we actually 'run to ratio' we could have been marked down under 'staff deployment' due to the size and layout of our premises.

We have 5 staff and on a few sessions technically we could get away with only 3 staff.

[Guest]

Exactly Louby Loo the black and white of legislation simply does not encompass the many shades of grey that as practitioners we have to work within!

[Rafa]

Keep ranting. We were told during an inspection that if we actually 'run to ratio' we could have been marked down under 'staff deployment' due to the size and layout of our premises.

We have 5 staff and on a few sessions technically we could get away with only 3 staff.

I have - in the past - run over ratio, however when I read, after the consultation, that the government considered us as 'wasting' money by working over ratio....well, I cant write what I thought, but it certainly made me decide - enough was enough!!

Like you Looby Lou , I foolishly thought having a 'better than minimum ratio' would be considered a good thing - a slap on the back - not a slap in the face!!

So now it is what it is.....and now with all additional costs I couldnt afford to be over ratio anyway!

 

This sector is definately going to the dogs. The government is working to price us PVIs out of the game I'm afraid.

[Guest]

Rafa - I think you might just be right!

[MarshaD]

Dear oh dear

 

Where to start? I have a 'good enough' staff which I have spoken about before. They turn up on time and don't have many sick days but they just don't have any fire. It does frustrate me as I am a 100% person and always have been in whatever I've done so I find this standpoint a very hard to understand. We have a two pound difference between our least experienced and most experienced - I still don't get paid at the moment but that's another story.

 

I have QTS so we can work 1:13 but it's hard to offer quality at this ratio if you have two year olds in the mix, so I have appointed another staff member. I can't afford an admin, but hoping an extra body will free me up a bit more to do all of that.

 

Add to all of this a parish secretary who really needs to explore her Christian values, a garden that's like a mud bath and continued refusal for me to enhance the outdoor environment - I got told I needed to pack away daily the grow bags I planted last year! It does make it seem like an uphill struggle. That said, it's only the grown-ups that cause problems. I love the kids and when they make progress I feel like I've won the lottery. Think what the future would be for some of them if they didn't have the safety of preschool or nursery. Keep on keeping on. They appreciate us even if no one else does!

[flowlow]

I don't know if anyone has ever read any of the journals out there on emotional labour, but I think this is what we are all talking about. We have all (staff as well although their levels might be different to ours) worked for so long on good will, the pressures we face as front line staff have increased and the working environment and government policy keeps getting worse.

 

We have run a little over ratio not by much but a little as the children we have in our care are sometimes very hard work. We seem to get quite a few children with complex needs and I am not really talking about SEN here just that they come from difficult backgrounds and need more support, help and basic stuff. Quite frankly even the recommended 1:8 is hard within this environment. Ratio is all well and good but safeguarding and quality care need to be a factor surely. However we will not be able to do this any more with the increase in wages. Don't get me wrong I agree the living wage needs to go up but it will be difficult to manage. There is very little difference between what the most qualified gets paid and the least and from April there will be hardly any difference at all.

 

I was sent a document more recently Jan 2016 EU bulletin and again the schoolification agenda raised its head and was seen to be the way to fix everything. It is things like this that wear me down and I think effect morale in the sector in general. However although I am taking a break from setting work, I am determined to find another way to make a difference in early years. It is such a vital and unique part of not just a child's life but a families life, we are the foundation stones for the rest of a child life and the impacts that we can have for families is incredible when given the chance. I just wish the government would realise we are life lines, and although they are throwing money at the sector as they know in the long run we can save them money and shore up economic security, I wish they would listen to us about how to do that!!!! Sorry off soap box

Edited February 19, 2016 by flowlow

[grumpymum]

All the government comments about making best use of staff and working to full ratios assume that children join/move rooms/leave settings in neat little packages of 3, 4 or 8 depending on age! That's not the real "early years world" and especially in full day care, you need to allow space further up the age groups for children to move at the appropriate time. In the past I have thought that funding should link to the number of places offered, and therefore the staff you need to cover those places, rather the number of children.

Local authorities also need to look at how they allocate funding to support children with additional needs. I have been unable to get full funding for some essential annual training (medical) that is needed in order for one of our children to attend as "the pot has run out", but they have known it needs funding and have done so and paid for it for the last 2 years - why did they not allow for this?

Our funding rate has not increased for 4 years now - and there is currently no answer about the next year's rate, and no answer when they are asked how we are supposed to fund wage increases. Like others here, any differential in pay rates for my staff is going to be eroded (not so much this year, but the following years when the Living Wage rises again and again - 6-7% annually if all the current figures stay in place).

[Guest]

All the government comments about making best use of staff and working to full ratios assume that children join/move rooms/leave settings in neat little packages of 3, 4 or 8 depending on age! That's not the real "early years world" and especially in full day care, you need to allow space further up the age groups for children to move at the appropriate time. In the past I have thought that funding should link to the number of places offered, and therefore the staff you need to cover those places, rather the number of children.

Local authorities also need to look at how they allocate funding to support children with additional needs. I have been unable to get full funding for some essential annual training (medical) that is needed in order for one of our children to attend as "the pot has run out", but they have known it needs funding and have done so and paid for it for the last 2 years - why did they not allow for this?

Our funding rate has not increased for 4 years now - and there is currently no answer about the next year's rate, and no answer when they are asked how we are supposed to fund wage increases. Like others here, any differential in pay rates for my staff is going to be eroded (not so much this year, but the following years when the Living Wage rises again and again - 6-7% annually if all the current figures stay in place).

I totally agree and on top the pension.........