LKeyteach Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hi All I went to London for the seminar organised by DfE and 4 Children. Not sure if any of you were there or if you have been to any of the other events around the country. I'm posting the link to the power point from today. http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/files/2015/10/The-30-hours-childcare-entitlement.pdf There was a lot of discussion about the funding. With no answers. However it was stressed that the funding is universal! So whatever parents earn as long as it is above minimum wage and both are working then they will get the funding. The DfE were also reassuring that they were looking at how to fund parents on zero hour contract or in seasonal work. The childcare bill will get it's 3rd reading on 26 Oct, so although there were clauses about the level of funding, 30 Hours Free Entitlement is not going to go away. There was a surprise visit from Sam Gyimah who answered questions. He seemed not to be aware that the level of funding from different authorities varied so greatly so not sure what he is going to do with that information. A school nursery pointed out that although they would be able to offer the hours they would be offering it to fewer children than access 15 hours through sessional care and that this could mean fewer childcare places being available. One thing that did come across was how if you are not able to offer 30 hours was how you could work together with childminders or others, probably just as we do now. However we did question how this looked for the child and what we don't want is a child accessing 3 or 4 different settings to get this entitlement. It was an interesting discussion and although I am reassured that it is being implemented for the right reasons the actual level of funding still needs to clarified and is going to be the major sticking point. Let's see what happens next. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apple Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thank you for sharing this. We didn't get the info re the meetings until really late and by then all were booked out! As a maintained Nursery class this raises lots of issues for us. Particularly the fact that some children will automatically miss out on a 15 hour place if we have more families that qualify for the 30 hours. Some of those children (those whose parent/s do not work) are amongst the most vulnerable and poorest. So for me it looks like this scheme will favour those whose parent/s can afford to or want to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 They are also going to think about how to increase the amount of hours on offer through school holidays. I can't see that happening without a huge injection of cash?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green hippo Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Apparently the House of Lords voted against it last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yes they did......................they want it properly costed before they vote again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKeyteach Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Narnia and Green Hippo, although the Lords want a more detailed analysis on costs, the childcare bill will go through on 26 Oct and this is part of the bill. It is also being tied into the spending review which will be reported on in November and I think that that is when we are more likely to have an idea of the level of funding. All that said we can start looking ahead to a free 30 hour entitlement as expected in September 2017 (except those settings who have chosen to be early implementers) this was made quite clear by DfE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Will funding only be increased - if there is an increase - for those offerering the 30 and stay the same for those offering 15, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 But surely this will discriminate against those that truly can't Rafa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 But surely this will discriminate against those that truly can't Rafa. I know but can't help feeling there will be 'criteria' for providers as well as receivers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 But if they try to restrict it too much there will be even less childcare places available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I just think that they will use extra funding as an 'incentive' to doing the 30 hours. Government will want as many providers as possible on board with delivering or the scheme fails. So like some LAs do now - base rate funding + extra for certain criteria eg Outstanding grade or Teacher status etc they could add extra funding increments IF you are offering 30hours! Carrot dangling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 That's what our LA changed to at the start of this financial year. Everyone at Base rate of £3.30 then increments for highest level of staff qualification and being open for 6 hours or more a day. Also extra increments for areas deprivation (think that links to child's address rather than settings address). Problem is that the increments are paid at the end of each claim period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 That's what our LA changed to at the start of this financial year. Everyone at Base rate of £3.30 then increments for highest level of staff qualification and being open for 6 hours or more a day. Also extra increments for areas deprivation (think that links to child's address rather than settings address). Problem is that the increments are paid at the end of each claim period! Where area of the country are you lsp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Where area of the country are you lsp Norfolk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Norfolk. Not near us then, it's strange just how different each area is - as yet we don't have anything like this (Midlands) although I'm sure it will come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Not near us then, it's strange just how different each area is - as yet we don't have anything like this (Midlands) although I'm sure it will come Ah ha! I'm Midlands thumper, Leicestershire - and they have been doing it this way (basic rate +) for a number of years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshaD Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I'm in a London Borough and am open 08:45 to 15:30. We get flat rate of £3.60 (or similar) for three year old. Which is less than my private hourly rate so this will mean a reduction in income and places offered. I suspect that rather like the existing 15 hours it will be the parents who were accessing or who would want 30 hours anyway who will benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveryoung Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ok sorry to rear the '30 hours' thing up again! I've spoken with my council today to see when they expect to hear from gov about being an early implementation area, my answer was Early Feb. Then during the conversation he said only 3 to four areas are being chosen and here's hoping were not one lol. Anyway I heard something i hadn't before just wondering who has heard it and it might be I've just overlooked it, anyway not everybody will get 30hours who do fall into criteria in fact the family will be eligible for the amount of hours over 15hours per week up to a max of 30 based on the lowest hours of the couple or single parent. So a couple both work one full time the other for 22hours per week this means the child will be able to access 22 hours per week. First I had heard of this part and I read parliament meeting notes, if this is true not only will we have to police the eligibility each term prating around changing hours if eligibility changes down/up from current Fel but we will also have to adjust extra free hours according to change in working hours (vacancies permitting) How the heck do we plan for these shinanigans ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashes2508 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It may not even happen - as with all these ' bright ideas' hence the early implementers , if it does not work then it may not happen , fingers crossed as IMO it is not going to benefit anyone , providers or parents fairly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 There was a piece in the PSLA under 5 mag. I will have to read it again because it mentions parents who work less than 16 hours may be eligible if they earn more than min/living wage. The eligibility is based on income earned not hours worked. This is where the equivalent bit fits in. So if I have understood it correctly (that means probably not) for example, if parent earns twice min wage per hour they would only need to work 8 hours???????? Please someone correct me if I have got this all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashes2508 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 At a recent workshop this is what I brought up , why give the 30 hours to those who don't need it and yet those who are working hard to pay mortgages etc yet have to spend a fortune in childcare are being penalised . If your only work 8 why would you need 30 hours ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflowers Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Is my (current) understanding correct - that a family only is eligible if both parents (or a lone parent) are working a minimum of 16 hours, earning no more than the minimum wage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Is my (current) understanding correct - that a family only is eligible if both parents (or a lone parent) are working a minimum of 16 hours, earning no more than the minimum wage? As yet unless your county is trailing no one is entitled and now won't be until 2017 . The government have changed the way they have worded this so many times already I wouldn't worry about it at the moment!!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueJ Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Is my (current) understanding correct - that a family only is eligible if both parents (or a lone parent) are working a minimum of 16 hours, earning no more than the minimum wage? Last I read it is both parents (or a lone parent) earning the equivalent of 16 hours per week at the minimum wage up to a maximum income of £100 K - e.g., £107.20 per week - You could therefore have someone earning £36/hour doing a 3 hour week qualifying!!!!! - as yet I haven't seen anything that mentions the living wage either only the minimum wage. Thankfully we are not a pilot area - although this has not stopped parents asking when they can have the 30 hours - this is going to be another area of contention when they get to grips with the fact that it's not a universal offer!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflowers Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Last I read it is both parents (or a lone parent) earning the equivalent of 16 hours per week at the minimum wage up to a maximum income of £100 K - e.g., £107.20 per week - You could therefore have someone earning £36/hour doing a 3 hour week qualifying!!!!! - as yet I haven't seen anything that mentions the living wage either only the minimum wage. From the PLA magazine Under 5: As it stands, families will be eligible if both parents (or one parent in a lone parent family) is earning: - at least the equivalent of 16 hours per week at the 'national living wage', if 25 or over - at least the equivalent of 16 hours per week at the National Minimum Wage, if under 25 - neither parent earns more than £100,000 per year, if self-employed or on zero-hour contracts (The government will set up an online application and eligibility checking system for this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 There will be all sorts of playing the system going on if criteria is set at earning the living wage... If I worked 16hrs a week @ £7.70, I'd be saying to my boss can you pay me less £7.20 will be fine, I'll lose £8 a week but gain another 15hrs free childcare approx worth £60 ....Bargain ! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I think the way it reads is the higher your hourly pay rate, the less hours you need to work??? It's that word 'equivalent' that makes it confusing and very bizarre? I am sure we will find out more on 1 Sept 16 when it is due to be implented into pilot areas - probably the same day that they will also find out! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflowers Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 There will be all sorts of playing the system going on if criteria is set at earning the living wage... If I worked 16hrs a week @ £7.70, I'd be saying to my boss can you pay me less £7.20 will be fine, I'll lose £8 a week but gain another 15hrs free childcare approx worth £60 ....Bargain ! I assume that it will be with the living wage as wit the minimum wage - that employers can't pay below that rate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueJ Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I assume that it will be with the living wage as wit the minimum wage - that employers can't pay below that rate. But that would then discriminate against parents under 25 years of age who don't have to be paid the living wage !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 From April the new living wage will in effect become the minimum wage for over 25's??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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