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Pros and Cons of accepting funded 2 year olds


Rea
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I know why I want to stay away from any more funding, but I need to have facts for and against so i can be objective. Our deputy keeps being asked to ask about it by the local CC, she's friends with the manager there and is really only seeing the good side, I suspect she thinks I'm being bloody minded, so facts about it that i can give to the committee would be great. Or even your own thoughts and experiences :)

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pros ....

funding is higher but of course ratio is lower!

They will stay with you for longer which means it is sometimes easier to spread the intake of children.

It is often possible to either get capital grants or resource grants because you take them

They will bring another dimension to your practise which will set up some challenge and diversity

They can be very cute!

Cons

They can be costly if they require additional help

they may not be toilet trained (!!...I have been in the toilet more times than I can say today!)

You may need to limit some of you resources (marbles/scissors??)

You will need a strong team who understand attachment theory and how to apply this

You may need to use sleep areas more often

Are your resources able to cope with their size?

It will change some of your provision...eg supported turn taking/needingmore of some resources etc

If you take a lot of 2 year olds and staff up for them...what happens when they are 3....woud you need to reduce staff numbers??

sorry more cons than pros it seems in this list!

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Foe me its quite simple. 2 years olds require twice the ratio of 3 year olds. As salaries are 80 % of most nursery costs, then until funded at 80% of 200% of 3 year old rate then simply not viable. Our current rates show not viable!! End of!!

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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 months later...

Hi everyone

I am under pressure to take funded children from the age of just turned 2. We have always taken children from 2 1/2 but no younger. I'm trying to do a pros and cons and risk assessment for my committee. Does anyone have anything to add to the previous comments? I'm particularly worried about resources being suitable for the whole age range. We have always risk assessed our resources as okay for 2 1/2 year olds, scissors and toys "not suitable for under 3 years", but I'm not happy about very young 2 year olds having their safety compromised and the other children being very limited at what they can access.

Thanks in advance!

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truthfully I regret going there and giving in to pressure ....for all the reasons above, but my main concern is for my 3 & 4 year olds and what we don't do with them now that my ratio's used to allow us to do, more visits out of setting, more focused group activities with maybe 3 of 4 of them, if a member of staff has planned something now then it's happening with a much bigger group, the extra funding doesn't allow for extra staff.....I keep getting 2yr funding applications to apply for funding for resources, but it's another pair of hands and eyes I want not resources :( sorry to sound so negative, why can't they just have 6 funded hours say and build up, so much pressure to give them their 15hrs all time.

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We have taken 2 yr olds for a couple of years, we haven't had many issues but one thing I would like to mention is that sometimes parents choose to send their child to us as we are able to take the A2YO funding and there isn't a setting near them that takes A2YO funding. Then when the child turns three they move them to a setting closer to their home.

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There are no real cons but that's our experience and can vary , we take from 2 and accept 2 yr funding , funnily enough we had a visit today from the 0-3 advisor or now called intervention officer due to our Ofsted rating we have to have any funding go to panel , very positive experience she said what a lovely setting , great provision and would be more than happy to recommend Our provision for 2 yr olds.

We take each day and risk assess as needed but find our 2 yr olds settle quickly and stay with us for the duration til school but this is probably due to our location. We recommend 2 sessions per week and then increase only when will feel the child is ready and parents have supported this. The funding in Essex is £5 per hour , may vary elsewhere.

I think you really need to assess and talk to your staff and committee and whether there is a need in your area.

Regarding the toile ting comment , most of ours came toilet trained or were within weeks of starting so no biggie really.

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This is a tricky one. We take funded two year olds and up until this term we have only had one or two. Suddenly, several wanted places for the start of term and this has made me become very reflective. I would never take so many at one time again!!! Most of ours don't take up the full 15 hours and just do 3 sessions (requirement) and in future I will start them at different times, because having so many having separation anxiety at the same time is difficult. Also, it puts pressure on practitioners having to deal with the younger ones as they are so needy! They all come with dummies, blankets and other comforters and it certainly has changed the dynamics of our 'Pre-school.' My parents of two year old funding generally (very broad statement here..... !) tend to need support too.

As we all know, the needs of a 2 year old are so different than those of a 4 year old and it just makes our jobs tougher to be inclusive for all. Like others have said, scissors are an issue, craft items are upturned and dumped, play dough is carted to the cosy area and mushed into the carpet etc. etc. and I find our continuous provision areas are ran sacked which makes clearing it up at the end of the session so much longer, (extra staff wages!) because at tidy up time 2 year olds just continue to play or move the things you have tidied up and they need supervising. With budgets tight, there is always the pressure that if you don't take them, however, they will go to another setting. A conundrum.

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Do you only take funded 2 yr olds MegaMum ? We started there, but soon had parents of unfunded 2 year olds asking and it seemed like discrimination not to admit them too....never expecting so many would actually want to start them at 2 as working parents tend to go for nursery care that opens all year and longer hours.

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How is your budget and 3 yr waiting list ? I find I'm not able to give extra hours to 3 yr olds because of the 2 year ratio staff usage, and for 1x 2yr old on £5 hr approx, you can have 2x 3 yr olds on approx £8 .....I would definately limit your number of 2 year olds if you decide to admit them, And include this in your admissions policy...good luck with your decision

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I am in the process of opening a new provision and am looking to take two year olds - funded and unfunded. Having worked in a setting that take children from two and a half, and only one other setting in the local area taking two year olds, I feel it is a USP for me. I do understand they are much more challenging and to have 2, 3 and 4 year olds in one provision will prove even more challenging. However, the benefits these children will have from being in an early years provision, will help them have a good start. But taking on board what everyone has said, limiting the number of two year olds taken has to be the way to go otherwise yes, staffing arrangements can become difficult and trying to manage provision with children with scattering and transporting schemas can become very time consuming and frustrating for staff :)

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We have always taken 2 years olds, and now of course the funded 2 year olds. I agree wholeheartedly with Mouseketeer to limit the amount. I am struggling to offer 3 year olds places on some days because of the higher staff ratio for the 2's - which is a pain because next year we are loosing so many children to school and we need to get more children in when this happens.

By the way Mouseketeer, where do you live that you get £8 for 3 yr olds? Is that your rate, not county rate? We've only just raised our rates for 2 year olds to £3.50, so can't raise them again so soon. I do think they should pay the same amount that we get for the funded 2 yr olds (4.85) at the very least!

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By the way Mouseketeer, where do you live that you get £8 for 3 yr olds? Is that your rate, not county rate? We've only just raised our rates for 2 year olds to £3.50, so can't raise them again so soon. I do think they should pay the same amount that we get for the funded 2 yr olds (4.85) at the very least!

I think the amount of income quoted will be related to ratios... one staff member can have double the number of children at 3yr plus allocated to them against the under 3..

so essentially more income per staff member. so while the income looks good per child in fact it is losing settings money if they could have over 3s fill the spaces.. worth considering when making the decision... if you fill up with under 3 and cannot increase the sessions for the over 3s you lose money.

Edited by Inge
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We've always taken 2 yr olds and this year have also had 1 funded 2yr old - this child although funded is no different to the other 2yr olds as the reason they have funding is due to low income.

But we have a VERY high number of 2yr olds this year and as a staff team we all feel 'sorry' for the older children!!

I have 2 children who will enter reception in Sept 15 then 10 who will enter school nursery either before or by Sept 15 and then 8 very young 2yr olds who aren't old enough to leave this academic year and these children are basically 'ruling the roost' we don't know if we are coming or going!! :blink:

It's very tough but we had to take them so young as the numbers were too low not to.

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Um no it was '2x 3yr olds for approx £8'....not each, we wish

 

As you say about feeling sorry for the 3 year olds thumperrabbit, we feel as if we're letting them down a little now, and maybe expecting too much of our group that would have been our 'babies' pre 2 yr olds.

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We have a very large room, side room and outdoor yard, we use to take max 4 2yr olds per session and rest were 3/4 funded (pack away setting) but with the roll out of 2yr funding we took the action after reflecting in depth at pros and cons of mixing ages as we did to section the large room to integrate a 2 year area. This takes 12 max 2 yr olds, as mentioned above we felt that our older children were suffering as we had to reduce certain toys or have them as staffed focus activities due to potential hazards it was not challenging for our older ones :( it's been a major challenge to increase our 2's but it's a decision we don't regret x

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  • 4 months later...

Hi everybody,

isn't this funding a little confusing <_< in our area for 3/4 YO funding we get a base rate and extras for things like hours we open, deprived area, and also a EYT/EYP extra rate..

However we do benefit from this funding and the 2 YO funding in our area. We find, like many other settings, not many full time places are being taken, and it as reduced to 2 or 3 days per week.. even with our special prices in comparison to other settings around, we struggle to get full time places filled. These free 15 hour places do fill up well and we manage ok financially and benefit from advertising extra's like a cheap fee for full time places.. just to bring in that extra income.

 

The 2 Y/O funding in my opinion is a blessing due to the progression of these toddlers into the 3/4 funding, and with more and more 2 year old's becoming eligible at the moment it will hopefully be a continued natural flow.. although i do understand the amount per hour could be better :P

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