flowlow Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) is it us or is everybody finding that children are coming to settings with increasingly more extreme behaviour? We have had a real day of it today and this will be a third child this year that needs massive amounts of behaviour support, and the language....! I have never had a year like it for three year olds saying phrases and words I wouldn't expect from teenagers that alone pre-schoolers!!!! (ok maybe I would from teenagers but it wouldn't be pleasant!!! :blink: ) My staff are pretty much run ragged from the extra stress and demands this puts on you, I mean this behaviour is extreme!!! and with only about two weeks left can't see us getting any support, its hard enough to get support when you have a whole year ahead of you!!! Wondering if that supermarket might be a good option after all!!!!!!!! Edited July 4, 2013 by Johanna1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Unfortunately it's not just you. We have had a noticeable change in behaviour this last year or so. In fact we were just roaring with laughter at a behaviour log from a decade or so ago, when things were noted down as unwanted behaviour that we would now just shrug off! (Metaphorically of course) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Interesting.........but terribly sad really.......wonder why this is happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 its just gone bonkers and if I hear one more parent say 'oh I know but what can I do?' or something equally inane I think I may just have to be like that women on the advert who lies on the floor and just goes for it with a paddy!!!!! although I guess a questionable good point I have now got over my C word phobia, exposure was obviously the answer!!! :blink: I have even had creative swearing now and with many different tenses now let me think which development matters statement and which are of learning does that link in with...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Interesting.........but terribly sad really.......wonder why this is happening? really wish I knew sunnyday because although we are trying to make light of it to keep going it is draining and has a massive effect on the other children on staff and mostly and more importantly the children that are behaving in this way are just so angry and sad!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 its just gone bonkers and if I hear one more parent say 'oh I know but what can I do?' or something equally inane I think I may just have to be like that women on the advert who lies on the floor and just goes for it with a paddy!!!!! although I guess a questionable good point I have now got over my C word phobia, exposure was obviously the answer!!! :blink: I have even had creative swearing now and with many different tenses now let me think which development matters statement and which are of learning does that link in with...? Are you serious? I have never, ever heard the 'c word' from a child........I couldn't cope with that I had one a few years back who was using the 'f word' - I requested a meeting with parents - only mum showed up - I explained that I could not possibly have that sort of language used at pre-school - dad rang later in the day - he was really angry with me because I had upset his wife I handled things with extreme calm and asked him what he suggested we could do to help his son to stop using such dreadful language and added that i wasn't sure how I could have handled things differently with mum and what would he rather I had said........ Long story short - never saw any of them again - that suited me just fine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) yep very serious I am afraid in at least two of the children we have had this year!! I have been called an F**** C*** as well as F*** B**ch we have been told to F off oh and just soo much more. Like I said it was in various tenses and they were extended vocab nicely just a shame it was swear words!!!! Then today we had a child loose it completely start throwing things at the wall, threaten to break the glass in one of the doors, and basically in a very aggressive tone said to my deputy and yes I am quoting here 'I am going to F'in well do you in, I am going to f'in kill you you F'in c**' ' and so on really he then threw something at her that caught her in the chest!!! I could go on from today alone We had another child at the begging of the year who would lash out at staff, other children, swear (see above), massive melt downs, screaming etc... and the only people that came in to support us didn't know what to do with him either, he left at Easter for various reasons!! now this little one has taken over :-( I should add here we have taken it up with parents but oh my goodness I have had my eyes opened!!!! Edited July 4, 2013 by Johanna1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Wish I had some 'wise words' for you Johanna........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 IMO this is child abuse...where is this chid getting this language from? is it from the home...or from inapproprate TV? I assume that you have had words with the parents!! and i have to say i would have removed this child to another area until it had calmed down. It is completely unfair for him to ruin the innocence and childhood of the others. sorry ...not having a go at you but i am appauled. I was on here the other day talking about a child quoting the only way is essex to me...that was bad enough! i think i would be having very stern words with these parents and refering to social services if they did not comply! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 How awful for you I do feel behavioural problems are on the increase, but not to the extreme that you are experiencing Not long until we break up!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreamay Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 sending you a big ((hug)) How very sad I have realised just how niave I am!! reading your posts has really had an effect and upset me! just what would I do in such a situation I wonder and what would you do if another child went home repeating such filthy language? Was already feeling sad because of the news about Bernie Nolan dying at 52 oh dear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Right there with you Finleysmaid I totally agree, the first child we did end up reporting (hence parents removal from our setting they weren't happy with me) the second I am trying to track mum down as it was the childminder who picked up. I will be on the case tomorrow and will want answers!! I am prepared to make a referral if I have to! However it is interesting our local inclusion team understands the language is inappropriate however doesn't class it as a safeguarding issue. Their recommendation with the first child either ignore it or tell him 'we don't speak like that at pre-school' which ever felt appropriate at the time. Also not to bother keep telling mum and dad as this was just focusing on the negative!!! We got him down from 40 incidents in a half term to 20!!! we thought that was quite an achievement although still scary when you think some children go 2 years without one incident. This child today has in the past mentioned Hollyoaks although I don't watch it from the clips you see on TV it isn't in the least suitable. So sorry Andreamay didn't mean to upset you more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflowers Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I tend to see inconsiderate and upsetting behaviours as communication of a need. What is it this child is trying to communicate? We clearly have one of the most important jobs there is. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreamay Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Its ok Johanna thats life I suppose and sometimes you just have to face the horrible stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 interestingly i have had a very aggressive child this term who attacked one of my staff ...i was appauled and called his father in...told him it was unacceptable and expressed my concerns that his child at the age of just 3 thought this was acceptable.....if he was 15 would it be ok for him to do that. Offered help and support etc etc Dad came in next time apologised and said that his Mother (ie the grandma) had had a stern word with him (the dad) and that he would do everything possible to improve the situation........i dont think grandma had been best pleased :blink: improvement was almost immediate! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflowers Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Or is there no need expressed - just habit and/or imitating the way people are at home, in the playground etc? (Thinking 'aloud' here...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Oh Johanna I do feel for you. What a horrible, distressing situation. We have noticed a marked increase in extreme behaviour in the past year or so and I'm sorry to say we've heard that kind of language too, said in context as well which is even more upsetting. I was so, so shocked the first time I heard a pre-schooler use the F and C words, but its been more than once now. We have been literally counting the days and hours until the end of term and what we thought was the last we would see of one of our little boys (because that is all he is, a little four year old boy). Then yesterday we found out that his mum has secured a sponsored place for him to attend right through the summer holidays. I was nearly in tears at the thought of another six weeks of his behaviour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Beehive, can you have a word before the six weeks? Can you say that it's provisional on him not using foul language? Maybe if she desperately needs the place over the holidays she will have to be more proactive in stopping it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) I have to say that in most schools any aggressive behaviour of that type would initially probably result in the parent immediately being asked to come and take their child home, pending discussions about the behaviour and what would be done to deal with it. This also allows everyone to "cool off". There is usually a type of home school agreement that sets out what will/will not be tolerated and attacking staff regardless of age of child falls into that category. Cx Edited July 5, 2013 by catma 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 Actually Catma we looked into this and looked into asking children to leave (not because we wanted to, or even thought it was a good idea but other parents called for one of our children to be expelled and we needed to check what was and wasn't supported in this situation) we were told categorically that we could not send children home or expel them as they are seen as not being in control of their emotions before the age of 5! Today we have had another day of it with the same child that kicked off yesterday! But I am fuming with mum as It was made quite clear by the childminder (who dropped off today) that we needed to speak to her as a matter of urgency and she basically shrugged it off and said well I wont be in until Monday or maybe even Tuesday!!!! :angry: If my child had behaved in this way I would be going out of my way to make it right! I know parents may have to work but what about phoning at a break time or lunch time?? Beehive you have my utmost empathy we too are counting down days, we need a break and I think my staff would quit if they had him for longer especially after we had the last child! Wildflowers I would normally view this as communication but my worry here is that it is learned behaviour which then means mum has some questions to answer if I could only get hold of her to ask them!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Actually Catma we looked into this and looked into asking children to leave (not because we wanted to, or even thought it was a good idea but other parents called for one of our children to be expelled and we needed to check what was and wasn't supported in this situation) we were told categorically that we could not send children home or expel them as they are seen as not being in control of their emotions before the age of 5! I understand it's more complicated for some providers...and I would always want to be looking at the antecedents etc etc but this wasn't an exclusion or expulsion, just early collection for the session on the basis that the child's behaviour was becoming dangerous to themselves and to others. We would also leave the damage done where reasonably safe to do so and show parents exactly what was done by their child. In my last school the parent would have to meet with staff the next day to discuss. Sometimes parents needed to be slightly inconvenienced and shown what types of aggressive, violent behaviour their child was displaying to really take it seriously. I had some shockers over the years, and know how draining it can be having a child who seems hell bent on destroying the place. Cx 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes we have had a few children in the past that have used offensive and inappropriate language, as well as hitting, kicking and one child even bit me once. It can be very draining on all concerned. Quick and open dialogue with parents that it is unacceptable, usually gave the majority of parents the nudge they needed to address it and we generally saw a rapid change in the child's behaviour. I actually think it is really sad and that children need all the support they can get. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 It seems to me patents are more prepared to heed the call from school asking to meet than from preschool, almost as if preschool doesn't matter. We had one like that a few years a ago, proper little darling, luckily everything but the c word! Mom was just as bad! But on a lighter note, the lad I used for my obs training was asked to share the playdough with some other children, he didn't want to and avoided all requests so i took some explaining why I was doing it. He stared hard at me and said 'stupid! You stupid stupid. I'm telling you stupid stupid' that went on until the dough had been divided up a little more equally. He really had no idea how to be really angry with me. So much for innocence 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Beehive, can you have a word before the six weeks? Can you say that it's provisional on him not using foul language? Maybe if she desperately needs the place over the holidays she will have to be more proactive in stopping it. Unfortunately Cait, it's not this little chap that uses the terrible language (sorry, my post wasn't very clear). He is aggressive, sometimes violent, deliberately disruptive, and his response to any intervention is "whatever". It has become harder and harder to engage him in play or structured activities.. He has to be watched when outside as the scope for hurting others is greater. And his main pastime (and it seems his main aim) is hurting others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Just read back my post above and I hate to write about a child in this way. It sounds like we've just written him off. But a post like this has come at (what we thought was) the end of a very long 18 months of trying to manage his behaviour and not succeeding. What is sad is that he is an intelligent and creative child but, due to his home life, I think his future is bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) oh Beehive you could be talking about some of our children here!!! actually I don't think it is about writing children off, but we are only human and I think being able to let of steam and air frustrations not and then mean we live to fight another day and that day may be the day we make the world of difference to that child, or helps to keep us going doing what we do the only time someone has seen these children through the good and bad (warts and all) and stood by them, keeping on trying when others would have thrown in the towel!!! Please note I can only say this now that it is Friday lol Edited July 5, 2013 by Johanna1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbieW Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 We too experience this type of behaviour and language. We find worryingly that swearing and aggression are used in context too such as 'road rage' in little tykes cars. We had a child who bumped into another and was shown the middle finger and used a range of swearwords that were derogatory to women drivers. I don't think he meant it but he had obviously observed this behaviour in the car and thought this was the appropriate response. We have found the same when boys play football..especially the F word. ....and the classic ,,,,a child asked me whether the 'old b**ch' was picking him up today (grandma). after a word with Mum who was heartily embarrassed that the pet name for her mother had been shared......the next day child asked whether the 'old doughnut' was picking him up today. :blink: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 ....and the classic ,,,,a child asked me whether the 'old b**ch' was picking him up today (grandma). after a word with Mum who was heartily embarrassed that the pet name for her mother had been shared......the next day child asked whether the 'old doughnut' was picking him up today. :blink: I know I shouldn't laugh Debbie but that did make me chuckle. The little one I have been talking about was playing football with his friend who suddenly had a winge and grizzly moment with a funny wiggle saying that the other little boy wasn't sharing, so the child I have been talking about told him to stop being a titarse!! :blink: never heard that one before but did make me giggle bad manager!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Laughing is better than crying though. As long as the children don't know we have a chuckle at some of their outrageous behaviour! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 A certain cartoon on sky at the moment constantly says 'poo poo pants'. That's what we get called by several children when asked to do something. We are all fighting a loosing battle children just don't seem to have the respect that we were bought up with. when you speak to parents they just laugh. buttercup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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