Staff Dilemma

[flowlow]

Hi all

 

feeling dreadful and wondered if I could sound off a bit.

 

We are term time only pre-school as such our contracts state that we should be available for work during term time and therefore all holidays should be booked in school holidays, barring one offs or special occasions (i.e. honeymoons etc..) in these instances staff should ask the committee if they can have the time off because of that specific reason the committee can then decide (to be honest they always say yes because normally people don't ask unless its a special reason and who wouldn't agree then)

 

The problem now is there a staff member who had a one off special occasion holiday lat year in term time for her husbands birthday and her parents anniversary. Then she has booked a holiday again for next term, in term time without asking the committee and for no special occasion just for the sake of a cheaper holiday.

 

This was flagged up and I was in the position of having to say that I couldn't support this decision because I can't have one rule for her and one rule for everyone else. She has spent a lot of money on this holiday and can't get it back! she is obviously very upset and threatening to resign and has taken it very personally and I just feel awful about the whole thing.

 

The thing is I adhere to the same rule as everyone else we would all love a holiday in term time but always say no as the other staff do knowing that this is what we have signed up for when we agree to work for the setting.

 

The trouble is we are a small setting and all friends as well as anything else and I feel like I have betrayed a friendship but as a manager I cant put one person above everyone else and to that end we are all friends so I cant win.

 

she is soo upset, I even think the committee would say go just don't do it again. It has all exploded and I cant help thinking actually this is my holiday too and all I keep hearing is everybody else complaining they have to sort this in their holiday with lots of swearing which just finishes it all off!!!

[sunnyday]

Oh what an awful position to be in - wish I had some useful advice........didn't want to just 'read and run'.......

[thumperrabbit]

No words of advice either, but to say you are not alone. We aren't allowed hols in term time either however I have 3 staff members who do it every year, we don't get paid if not in, so unless we go down disciplinary route there's not much that can be done. We are a staff team of 5 and find it VERY hard to get cover as well, but they don't care.

[HappyMaz]

I've had this happen to me in the past, and I must say I have just had to put up with it. I wouldn't have felt comfortable in making the person cancel their holiday, but nor would I have been very happy about it either.

 

This sort of issue is very damaging to staff morale, when everyone else is playing by the rules. Unless you have set specific disciplinary procedures that are to be followed when someone doesn't follow the holiday procedures (ie the sanctions that will be applied in every single case) then I'm not sure what you can do to enforce this rule. It is the sort of thing that generally runs on goodwill.

 

I feel very sorry that you are embroiled in all this, especially when there are friendships involved. I'm not sure why you feel so awful though - she has put you in an awkward position and prevailed upon your friendship in the hope that she'll get away with it!

 

Good luck - hope you get it sorted and can begin to enjoy your holidays!

[bugbabe]

What a sad story.

 

Is it not in staff contracts that holidays are to be taken in holiday time?

 

Our staff sign to agree this and then ask permission for special events etc.

Edited August 2, 2012 by bugbabe

[finleysmaid]

we have allowed this before but the person taking holiday has to do so in their own time (ie not paid) they also ...if possible, have to arrange their cover for when they are off...if they can do both of these things then i allow it. I would also have a chat to say that this is really the last time you will be able to support this as the pre-school cannot do without her expertise...also as she has 12 weeks off in the year then i do think she could organise it during that time

[flowlow]

What a sad story.

 

Is it not in staff contracts that holidays are to be taken in holiday time?

 

Our staff sign to agree this and then ask permission for special events etc.

 

yes it is in the contract and yes she has signed this which is really what started it all the fact that this is the case and everybody else abides by it!!! in this instance though she didn't and already booked her holiday which has cost a lot of money which she will loose but she should have asked the committee if it was a special occasion but it isn't its just a holiday

[diesel10]

It's her problem not yours. She knows the rules. Especially booking in the Autumn term when you are getting to know the new children. Although having said this, my Manager used to book the first two weeks of the new year and expected me the cope with all and then walk back in when it had all calmed down!

[flowlow]

thank you everyone for replying it has made me feel so much better. To honest HappymMaz I think I just feel awful because it was such an explosion and she was screaming at me down the phone in floods of tears, so I guess really its just the backlash of all the hard feeling. However you are right I know you are in that she has prevailed upon the friendship lesson for me there as well I guess!!!

 

Have spoken to the committee but they don't meet till September but I can't see them asking her to cancel her holiday now as she will loose so much money and she has threatened to resign if this happens, but I have told her this can't happen next year and she has promised it wont.

 

oh well it can only get better from here on in,

thank you so much everybody xxx

[Guest]

 

The trouble is we are a small setting and all friends as well as anything else and I feel like I have betrayed a friendship but as a manager I cant put one person above everyone else and to that end we are all friends so I cant win.

 

 

I can fully understand why you feel this way - but you haven't betrayed anything, as your 'friend' put you in this position in the first place. You are simply responding to this situation in your role as manager. This won't help at all with how you feel - but please keep remembering that friendship works both ways and you didn't initiate this.

 

As others have said, unless you 'make an example' it will continue to happen (and possibly with the others as well) so you may either have to accept or bite the bullet - great isn't it? especially in your hols when you should be relaxing yourself!

 

hope you get things sorted and can enjoy your well earned time off!

[HappyMaz]

Well now that you've kind of sorted it, perhaps it is time for the Committee to discuss how this can be prevented in future, and what measures will be taken if this happens again. Then, you will have an established way of proceeding if this or any other member of staff abuses the system again.

 

At least if everyone is aware of what the sanction will be, you have a clear way forward and everyone knows what is expected and how they will be dealt with if they fail to observe that part of their contract.

 

If the Committee can't see a way of enforcing this part of the contract then perhaps they need to consider how to manage term time holidays - maybe along the lines that finleysmaid suggests.

 

Deep breaths now, and enjoy your Summer!

[Guest]

crossed posts!

[Panders]

Do you know what I think part of the problems with this type of stuff is? Our families ( I suppose I mean other halves) don't always appreciate the boundaries of our jobs, some still see it as a part-time, pin money type of job which can't seriously stop them from taking time off when they want to, they think we are put upon anyway for the amount of stuff we do in our own time and maybe just don't see the serious side of our jobs.

 

I hate myself for thinking this way, and know it is a complete generalisation but it is just a thought!

[finleysmaid]

are you married to my husband panders?...after 16 years of doing this job he still doesn't understand! He would expect me to drop everything at the last minute but woe betide if i did the same to him! :rolleyes: <_<

[Mouseketeer]

Haha mine still keeps asking 'when Are you going to get a proper job'

[finleysmaid]

Haha mine still keeps asking 'when Are you going to get a proper job'

what with a proper wage you mean???!!!

[Mouseketeer]

Lol you've got it finleysmaid.....it goes in hand with the 'why are you doing that now', 'why is all this stuff in my house', 'you're not paid enough for all this *%#*'..........

[Fredbear]

Put my husband on that list too, after over 30 years in Early Years you would have thought he had got the idea of what it's like:) boot full, hallway full, garage full, shed full get the gist. Hee hee.

[Cait]

Ah, mine can't complain on that score, even though I have all the above he has more! He took over son's bedroom when he left for uni and floor to ceiling'd it with shelves, and the loft is till groaning!

 

 

 

I presume this holiday is unpaid? At the very least she should organise her own cover whilst she is away, and have all her planning for key children in place annotated with what elements she particularly wants to progress with. Any preparation for those activities should be done, etc.

[anju]

What an awful situation - I am lucky this has never happened. Maz is right - just review policies now and make it clear what the sanctions would be in future if someone does this. I would imagine it will cause/is causing resentment amongst other staff though

 

Poor you

[Mouseketeer]

We do seem to have a professional funeral goer on our staff which really winds everyone else up, so we have now added a section about time off for funerals, who count as immediate family who doesn't, how much time you,ll be given pd/unpaid etc.. But it still comes down to the ethics of the member of staff concerned, one thinks it's ok to take a week off to recover from the ex- mother- in-in laws 2nd cousins funeral and another may just take half a day for someone considered as close.

[anju]

I give three day's per year discretionary paid time off (there is no sick pay apart from SSP) which is meant for caring for dependents in an emergency (e.g. sick child) but I would maybe stretch that to funerals for immediate family (depending how that is defined!). I haven't had anyone ask though.

[louby loo]

Gosh, reading all these make me feel really lucky.

 

I'm going to be totally honest - we do allow staff holidays during term time. The way I see it is we all work VERY HARD, this work goes home with us, clutters our minds as well as our homes. Our pay is disproportionately low to the hours we put in, and staff are then penalised for having to pay top rates for holidays.

Having said that- I'm also lucky enough to have a solid, mature team that do not take the p***. Some of our staff have holidays during term - well planned in advance, unpaid, and plan and prepare workloads ready for cover to follow. Always discussed properly before hand- not a 'well I'm off the Spain next' attitude.

Staff without children themselves get the chance of a peaceful, cheaper holiday (with minimal children around!!) Staff with children- well they can't really take time of term time anyway.

 

For us it makes a pleasant working environment - and the children benefit too.... staff ALWAYS have to bring back small 'memento' of their destination for the setting... which usually leads to opening up an interest of some kind or other.

 

It's the holiday companies that are at fault here, not us!!

[flowlow]

I think you are right Panders about partners sometimes not helping! Good to know my husband not the only one then with the grumblings about my work it always annoys me when he mentions how much holiday I get (i.e. school holidays) compared to him and yet like yesterday most of it is spent on pre-school stuff and he lives with me he knows this can so identify with the you don't get paid enough etc, and yet bless him at other times I couldn't want for a better champion for me or my pre-school!!!

 

I think like you said it comes from not wanting us taken advantage of and I think this staff members chap is no different it seems he was the one suggesting it and it should have been ok because it was two weeks away with the second week being half term and after all he is the main bread winner so he gets to say when they go away I think was his thought.

 

I hope now that the committee is going to sort it and and hopefully I can now enjoy the rest of the holiday so far it has been one thing after another. Thanks everyone for your reassuring words it has helped me put the 'feeling awful' to one side. I am not sure it is over yet, I don't know the kind of reception I will get, the way this staff member will be on the lead up to the holiday and the way the other staff will feel in terms of resentment but I don't have to think about that for a couple more week yet

 

and breathe...........

[flowlow]

Gosh, reading all these make me feel really lucky.

 

I'm going to be totally honest - we do allow staff holidays during term time. The way I see it is we all work VERY HARD, this work goes home with us, clutters our minds as well as our homes. Our pay is disproportionately low to the hours we put in, and staff are then penalised for having to pay top rates for holidays.

Having said that- I'm also lucky enough to have a solid, mature team that do not take the p***. Some of our staff have holidays during term - well planned in advance, unpaid, and plan and prepare workloads ready for cover to follow. Always discussed properly before hand- not a 'well I'm off the Spain next' attitude.

Staff without children themselves get the chance of a peaceful, cheaper holiday (with minimal children around!!) Staff with children- well they can't really take time of term time anyway.

 

For us it makes a pleasant working environment - and the children benefit too.... staff ALWAYS have to bring back small 'memento' of their destination for the setting... which usually leads to opening up an interest of some kind or other.

 

It's the holiday companies that are at fault here, not us!!

 

Louby Loo I totally understand this too I wish we did work like that but we don't

 

My difficulties started as holiday in term time is not our policy and therefore everyone knows this when they join so everyone should abide by the same rules. We all work really hard as you have said and I would love to give all the staff extra time off (myself included) but this particular member of staff made it sound that the rules everyone else abides by don't apply to her because she works hard etc.... implying harder than the rest of us really and that she does all this extra work on good will in her own time, well yes she does and but then so does everyone else. So it all got a bit messy! It can't be one rule for one and one rule for every one else. I don't think it would have been so bad if she had followed procedure and organised cover and put it before the committee before she booked it but she didn't do either of those things she just booked it and that was that has to go or loose loads of money!!!

[louby loo]

 

My difficulties started as holiday in term time is not our policy and therefore everyone knows this when they join so everyone should abide by the same rules. We all work really hard as you have said and I would love to give all the staff extra time off (myself included) but this particular member of staff made it sound that the rules everyone else abides by don't apply to her because she works hard etc.... implying harder than the rest of us really and that she does all this extra work on good will in her own time, well yes she does and but then so does everyone else. So it all got a bit messy! It can't be one rule for one and one rule for every one else. I don't think it would have been so bad if she had followed procedure and organised cover and put it before the committee before she booked it but she didn't do either of those things she just booked it and that was that has to go or loose loads of money!!!

 

I fully agree, which Is way I feel so fortunate with my team.

I feel for you, I really do - our pay does not qualify us for this kind of grief that spills out into our personal lives - easy to say 'Don't let if upset you'.......... but it does and you can't stop it!!! It's this kind of caring attitude that makes us good at out jobs in the first place. xxx

[calicojo]

I really sympathise with you about the situation where you're in a small staff team, all friends and the committee are friends too, maybe more with some staff than others, it's what comes of being in a village pre school. I dread having to go to the committee with a problem as it can all get too personal and to be honest, they really don't want the bother of dealing with what they see as something I should be on top of.

 

Have been through similar situations recently and know how upsetting it all is, for everyone.

 

Jo

[Guest]

Oh Dear

One word of advice though your their BOSS not their friend.......when it is a work issue you have to think like the BOSS!

When you re write the policy i would clearly state in shouty capitals that ANY HOLIDAYS BOOKED AND PAID FOR WITHOUT CONSULTING THE COMMITEE AND AWAITING A VERDICT WILL RESULT IN THE HOLIDAY BEING DECLINED AND ANY FINANCIAL LOSS THEY INCUR IS THEIR OWN FAULT.

If she wants to go on holiday term time then she needs another job every other term time only understands this simple very obvious part of the contract.

People really p*** me off when they think they can do as they please because they are your 'friend' it doesn't wash with me I am friendly with the staff in and out of work but if something work related happens they understand that I will be their boss when dealing with it. I'd make this clear with all your 'friends'. I think it is completely unfair of your 'friend' to do this and any who support her are just as bad!!

Hold your head up high, grit your teeth and smile, you were right in your decision(regardless of the outcome from commitee meeting) your following procedure well done you , if she doesn't like it she knows where the door is.......