SazzJ Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi Can anyone please help me out? Where does it state that staff have to be paid for training? Just so I have the evidence to back it up when I approach wok. Also other job is saying that next year we won't be paid for the week long training programme we currently have to attend and so I also need it for this job too. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo A Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Sorry but we only get paid for first aid training - all other training is unpaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure where it says that you have to pay staff for training and so on. However it is considered good practice - perhaps your Local Authority adviser could help you out on this one? I'm a bit worried that your staff will be expected to attend a week long training course though - that sounds like a big investment in their time for no pay! What kind of hourly rate are your staff on, out of interest? If they are paid at minimum wage or not much above, is there a danger that when all the extra unpaid hours are added in your setting might be paying an hourly rate below minimum wage for the actual hours worked? Possibly not, but it is certainly something to bear in mind! Good luck - hope someone comes up with the right information for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SazzJ Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure where it says that you have to pay staff for training and so on. However it is considered good practice - perhaps your Local Authority adviser could help you out on this one? I'm a bit worried that your staff will be expected to attend a week long training course though - that sounds like a big investment in their time for no pay! What kind of hourly rate are your staff on, out of interest? If they are paid at minimum wage or not much above, is there a danger that when all the extra unpaid hours are added in your setting might be paying an hourly rate below minimum wage for the actual hours worked? Possibly not, but it is certainly something to bear in mind! Good luck - hope someone comes up with the right information for you! They intend to not even pay us for first aid training though! Staff are expected to attend 37 hours spread across 5 days to guarantee employment. Hourly rate is just over £8 an hour but is justified by the fact that staff are on casual contracts etc and we don't get milage etc although are expected to do a lot of travelling etc. Howvever this is my second job. With my first job staff are expected to attend relevant training but once a course hits 1pm they are expected to not get paid although it may continue till 3 or 4 pm, sometimes later. Just want to ensure that staff are paid for their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We guarantee pay for safeguarding training only. Other courses are kind of hit/miss as to whether paid or not. If they fall during your normal working session - then you get paid. If they fall outside your work-pattern then you have the option to attend or not unpaid..........most people do as at the end of the day it is for your own CPD too. First aid is a tricky one though - as technically not everyone needs it, however we chose do it as a group (we pay for our own trainer to come in) and this one is also swings and roundabouts. This time round it works out on an inset day - so we will be paid for one day, and not the second day. We discussed this as a group and decided that instead of just 2 people (paid) we would all to it. (again for us personally too) Our LA doesn't offer cover funding, and all course's are paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I pay my staff 24 hours pay over the course of the year for their training. We have a mandatory 24hours training or we could lose entitlement funding. It works out as only 2 hours additional pay per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks Cait. I was beginning to wonder if ours was the only group who get paid for training! If staff want to do more than their 24 hours are they happy to do it unpaid? It does sound like a logical system you've got going there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks Cait. I was beginning to wonder if ours was the only group who get paid for training! If staff want to do more than their 24 hours are they happy to do it unpaid? It does sound like a logical system you've got going there! My contract says I will get paid for all training taking place outside my normal hours.... so if I go to training that finishes at 4pm and I normally only work until 3pm then I'll claim the extra time! Feel very lucky now that this is hte case!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 we were told at a recent health and safety course that you must be paid for essential training....always difficult to assess what essential is as this is never listed but if you want more info try reading THE LAW section of this link.... http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg345.pdf we pay for all training but i am finding alternatives to some off site training by doing online courses which can be done in the setting in a relatively short time(and staff can still be counted in the ratios if deperate!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devondaisy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Staff at my setting get paid for 4 days training per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We pay for 4 days training per practitioner per year. However they have all completed a first aid course of 12 hours and were paid to attend that. I recently asked them all to update their safeguarding online and we paid computer time for that as well. I think it depends what your setting can afford, but if it is mandatory training practitioners are asked to attend, they cannot be reasonably expected to do it for nothing. After all they are not highly paid to start with, so like any job I think training should be paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) we were told at a recent health and safety course that you must be paid for essential training....always difficult to assess what essential is as this is never listed but if you want more info try reading THE LAW section of this link....http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg345.pdf we pay for all training but i am finding alternatives to some off site training by doing online courses which can be done in the setting in a relatively short time(and staff can still be counted in the ratios if deperate!) I forgot to add the H+S is paid for (or may include off in Lieu) Also our LA expects every setting to have L3 H+S - but getting onto the courses is a different matter altogether! Edited July 12, 2011 by louby loo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks Cait. I was beginning to wonder if ours was the only group who get paid for training! If staff want to do more than their 24 hours are they happy to do it unpaid? It does sound like a logical system you've got going there! It's negotiable, depends what it is really. I mean if 'Suzie' takes over the role of H&S then she's going to need bringing up to speed, and if she's done her 24hrs already then obviously this is over and above that. But if it's 'oh I quite fancy that', them maybe it's a 'no' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We are given 12 hours training per year. Some members of staff do much more than this, for their CPD, others stick to this limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Okay all staff get paid for training at our setting, and fortunately with a little tweaking we are able to budget this in each year. First aid training, it is our choice that all staff are trained at our setting. Normally takes place on site over a 6 week period during an evening, or two Saturdays [ we class this as compulsory]. There are different rates of pay depending on whether it is classed as compulsory, or just something we are interested in. I normally look through the training programme with my Deputy, decide if their are any courses we feel will be useful for particular staff to do for their own CPD, or the pre-school and then advise that we would like them to attend. It works out at 15 hrs per year for all staff plus any compulsory training. Some will do more, and some less depending on their job role and responsibilities. I would not expect any of my staff to do training outside of their hours of work or lose money to go on them. I see it as an investment and strongly protect it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) I pay my staff 24 hours pay over the course of the year for their training. We have a mandatory 24hours training or we could lose entitlement funding. It works out as only 2 hours additional pay per month. It's funny how different LAs work. I know your funding rate is quite low compared to ours- but do you get 'cover support' for your 24 mandatory hours?, and do you have to pay for training courses? We have no cover funding, and have to pay for all courses - I don't think we would be able to afford for anything near that amount for our staff! Our LA likes all staff to have access to at least one short (3 hour) course per term if possible. We do have 3 inset days per year which we use for 'In house training' - but this is not always 'formal training' as such, just our own researched/ best practice/cascading days. Edited July 12, 2011 by louby loo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 All staff at our setting get paid for any training we go on, be it a 12 hour first aid course or a 1 hour H&S booster. We also get paid for any in-house training. I would feel very hard done by if some of my colleagues on the same training course were getting paid because it was held during their rostered hours and I wasnt because it was my day off, for example. That's very unfair. We get our normal hourly rate for any overtime. My LA have cut the subsidy for first aid training and it is very expensive. We have found a distance course that can be completed online and is accepted by the powers that be. Costs £30 approx and will be refunded by my setting when I get around to doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi all we can't pay an hourly rate so the committee decided to pay a set amount for training so half a day is £7.50 and a full day is £15 however the exception is the long term training like NVQ's and degrees which are in your own time unpaid. This works for the most part, certainly better than we used to be (which was no pay) but it does mean that if you should have worked on a day and there is training instead you need to have that discussion about whether you should have the proper hourly amount rather than the set amount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My LA have cut the subsidy for first aid training and it is very expensive. We have found a distance course that can be completed online and is accepted by the powers that be. Costs £30 approx and will be refunded by my setting when I get around to doing it. Hi Dublinbay Could you let me have details of this online course? I'd be interested in finding out whether my LA approve of it. It might be preferable to giving up two of my Saturdays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 They intend to not even pay us for first aid training though! Staff are expected to attend 37 hours spread across 5 days to guarantee employment. Hourly rate is just over £8 an hour but is justified by the fact that staff are on casual contracts etc and we don't get milage etc although are expected to do a lot of travelling etc. Howvever this is my second job. With my first job staff are expected to attend relevant training but once a course hits 1pm they are expected to not get paid although it may continue till 3 or 4 pm, sometimes later. Just want to ensure that staff are paid for their time. If I was expected to attend to continue employment and it was part of my contract I would feel very aggrieved if it was not paid for.. the company chose to have this in their contract so should be paying for the hours.. it is not the employees choice to do this every year.. it is a week of work unpaid and I would dispute the unpaid bit.. does the contract say it is unpaid? is it even in the contract? if not then I would dispute as to if it is legal and can they actually make you do it. perhaps a thought to joining a union who would help you with all this sort of thing.. only say this because I have read a different thread where an employee is refusing all unpaid work supported by a union... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Its always a bit of a grey area isn't it! In terms of an employers legal obligation, this only goes as far as any statutory legislation. I wasn't aware of the H&S requirement in terms of it explicitly stating about training and pay, so thats useful to know! Like some others, we had a clause in our funding agreement about staff attending 2 training courses each year. This was written into our employment contracts and it was decided that since this was a requirement that staff should be paid for this time. If the setting decided that staff should undertake additional training over and above this then this was also paid for, but if a staff member just 'fancied' a course then they would do this in their own time unpaid. If it doesn't explicitly state that you will be paid or not paid for training in your contracts then this needs to be clarified and I would definitely seek advice about the legality of a requirement for training which is unpaid. This is effectively a hidden reduction in your wages since you will be doing hours for your employer unpaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would feel very hard done by if some of my colleagues on the same training course were getting paid because it was held during their rostered hours and I wasnt because it was my day off, for example. That's very unfair. We manage this so it never happens! We would only every send one staff member on a training course at one time anyway - as part of our funding agreement is that 'staff effectively cascade info back to setting, and this is something we do take seriously. The only time this might happen is if staff 'fancy' extra courses - and then they're actually better of as we pay for the course anyway. We are all paid for all in house/staff meetings/inset day etc during which cascaded info is shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi DublinbayCould you let me have details of this online course? I'd be interested in finding out whether my LA approve of it. It might be preferable to giving up two of my Saturdays! Hi Deb, I've sent you a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SazzJ Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 If I was expected to attend to continue employment and it was part of my contract I would feel very aggrieved if it was not paid for.. the company chose to have this in their contract so should be paying for the hours.. it is not the employees choice to do this every year.. it is a week of work unpaid and I would dispute the unpaid bit.. does the contract say it is unpaid? is it even in the contract? if not then I would dispute as to if it is legal and can they actually make you do it. perhaps a thought to joining a union who would help you with all this sort of thing.. only say this because I have read a different thread where an employee is refusing all unpaid work supported by a union... That is the best part of all. We don't have contracts!!! We are classed as casual workers and so therefore no contract. I have to add that this is a department within the LEA too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Do you not even have a terms and conditions document? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Do you not even have a terms and conditions document? I have to say I have this problem with a second job too. We are expected to attend training and meetings but are not paid to!! However I have to add they are not very hot on chasing this up- can't think why?!!!!! To be honest I think they rely on us doing onging training with the first job- which keeps us 'up to speed' for the second job!!!! for them it's a 'win win'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairygarden Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Why would you not pay staff for training. Even if it is CPD and not so called essential training, the setting gains by having a better qualified work force. How can we be expected to be treated as a profession when this sort of things goes on? We all work far too hard for far too little as it is, without giving up out of hours time for nothing for training. It makes me mad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 All staff at our setting get paid for any training we go on, be it a 12 hour first aid course or a 1 hour H&S booster. We also get paid for any in-house training. I would feel very hard done by if some of my colleagues on the same training course were getting paid because it was held during their rostered hours and I wasnt because it was my day off, for example. That's very unfair. We get our normal hourly rate for any overtime. My LA have cut the subsidy for first aid training and it is very expensive. We have found a distance course that can be completed online and is accepted by the powers that be. Costs £30 approx and will be refunded by my setting when I get around to doing it. Wondered if you could give me the link for the online training please dublinbay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'd appreciate the link as well dublinbay. Cheers We are now having to pay £120 each for 1st aid, H&S & Food Hygiene courses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liberty Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I feel that it is nice if settings are able to pay staff whilst they attend training. However, by continuing with professional development, as well as ensuring that the quality of the setting currently worked at remains high/improves, each of us are hightening our knowledge base with skills that are transferable and therefore improve our personal employability (sp?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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