SueJ Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 That's what we like an optimist - I am thinking of breaking my no radio rule tomorrow and having radio 5 live on from about midday!! 2
Mouseketeer Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 you have the radio on SueJ and I'll check in ...so don't forget to update me with the good news I still fail to understand why someone working 8 hours a week should be entitled to 30 hours free childcare, I hope they don't change the ratios, but me for one is looking for any excuse to faze out 2yr olds completely and this could be the perfect reason so it frees up staff again to over ratio 3 and 4 yr olds as we always used to be able to. 1
Rafa Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Yeah Mousekeeter, who let the two year olds in?? They've made us all broke, cause chaos in the setting and use up ALL the resources!!! Life was so simple before they sashayed through the door!! : ) However, on a completely - 'keeping my setting sustainable' point of view - they are my Autumn terms 'bread and butter' when I lose all my fours to school............gone..........setting empty!! Of course then its not too long beforethey turn into lovely 3s......... 4
Mouseketeer Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 It's certainly a tricky one Rafa and I may need them next sept with 35 out the door compared to 26 this sept, but I'm finding now I don't have places for the 2.5/3 yr olds when they want a place and parents who aren't eager to shove them in the door as soon as...but I have high hopes for my new 10 point admissions policy which prioritises catchment children :-) 2
lsp Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Another skill we all have - juggling!!! Think I might run away to the circus lol Seriously though, Mouseketeer, with your new admissions policy will you be holding empty spaces to fit in your catchment area children who do not want to start at the beginning of the year?
BroadOaks Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 I still fail to understand why someone working 8 hours a week should be entitled to 30 hours free childcare. i think it is to encourage them to work more hours in the future.. allowing them to earn more money and rely less on welfare, thus lowering the welfare bill as they set out to achieve. Are the jobs available though?!
BroadOaks Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-34898411
BroadOaks Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Well 300 million increase in funding.. what do we think?
narnia Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) From 2017 though?? And free 30 hours for parents working 16 hours now instead of the 8 they originally said, but for those earning less than £100,00. If it is ring-fenced for EY, it will help, but if Councils can top slice as thy currently do, we'll remain the poor relations of education Edited November 25, 2015 by narnia 2
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 "George Osborne says there'll be 500 new free schools and university technical colleges. He says there are now 5,000 academies and announces that sixth form colleges will be able to come academies too "so they no longer have to pay VAT". The schools budget is protected in real terms and total financial support for education - including childcare - will increase by £10bn. The government will phase out the "unfair" school funding system which has "systematically underfunded schools in whole swathes of the country". It'll be replaced by a new National Funding Formula from 2017 he adds." Will be interesting to find out how much of the £10bn we end up with in Early Years!!!
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Perhaps we all need to become academies and not pay VAT..........
BroadOaks Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 I think the 16 hours is possibly the total for both parents to be working where applicable.. so a family working 16 hours or more will qualify although i could be wrong. Well we don't charge VAT so it's only fair we shouldn't pay it. Is there a reason why academies don't pay VAT?! School's are underfunded? How much pay are headmasters on again?! Well i guess the U turn on tax credits will help families.. until it changes to Universal Credit of course then it will be a different story i guess.. hmm they think they are clever! 1
Masha Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 You can read more detail on the Spending Review & Autumn Statement here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spending-review-and-autumn-statement-2015-documents I've just had a quick scan through and it seems that the criteria for the 30 hours childcare is that each parent must be earning the equivalent of 16 per week on the national living wage. Interestingly they've said there will be a new national funding formula, but not until 2017 The government has also undertaken a review of the cost of childcare provision, and from 2017-18 will invest £300 million to increase the average hourly rate childcare providers receive, and at least £50 million of capital funding to create additional places in nurseries. This will be delivered alongside the introduction of a national early years funding formula and other reforms, to ensure funding is fairly allocated 1
Rafa Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) So the long and the short.........? Are we still struggling next year - no funding increase? And the year after? Once again looks like we may have a copper or two thrown our way (thanks guv'nor) - but when....? Not sure how many of us can hang on till 17-18. Maybe thats it - he's playing the long game. Edited November 25, 2015 by Rafa 1
mundia Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 The devil will always be in the detail. An early years national funding formula sounds like a positive move in the right direction,as long as the requirements have some statutory elements.....currently school funding has a lot of 'optionals' which means they are still up for argument at school forum level.assuming any EY formula follows a similar model. Most member here will probably know how many parents work 16+ hours and so could quickly determine the impact of the 30 hours. £300m doesn't sound like a lot on a child level basis. And it's not clear how that is to be distributed unless more detail is given in the appendix. There does need to be a fair funding allocation across the country for schools, the current range is very vast and this also impacts on what early years gets. If you LA DSG is small compared to your neighbour down the road, then you'll probably be getting less funding also. Ringfenced, I'd have thought unlikely, but a funding formula to be applied nationally would protect some I would have thought. Pupil premium is being protected but nothing about EYPP, hmmm, is that going to disappear into the ether and be consumed by the funding formula?
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 You can read more detail on the Spending Review & Autumn Statement here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spending-review-and-autumn-statement-2015-documents I've just had a quick scan through and it seems that the criteria for the 30 hours childcare is that each parent must be earning the equivalent of 16 per week on the national living wage. Interestingly they've said there will be a new national funding formula, but not until 2017 The government has also undertaken a review of the cost of childcare provision, and from 2017-18 will invest £300 million to increase the average hourly rate childcare providers receive, and at least £50 million of capital funding to create additional places in nurseries. This will be delivered alongside the introduction of a national early years funding formula and other reforms, to ensure funding is fairly allocated To save you ploughing through the whole thing, it's p50-51 and p96 in the "blue book"
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 New funding rate £4.88 for 3-4 yr olds and £5.39 for 2 yr olds......
sunnyday Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 New funding rate £4.88 for 3-4 yr olds and £5.39 for 2 yr olds...... Hi marley - where did you get that info please........I saw a 'tweet' with those figures but it actually said £4.88 including EYPP :blink:
lsp Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 It's on PLA Facebook page and states includes EYPP. So if EYPP remains 53p an hour - 4.53. I don't know what the current rate is????
sunnyday Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 It's on PLA Facebook page and states includes EYPP. So if EYPP remains 53p an hour - 4.53. I don't know what the current rate is???? I am confused - doesn't take a lot :blink:
Masha Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Hmmm, this reminds me of when the 2 year old funding came in. I seem to remember there was an announcement that it would be funded at £5.19 per hour, but the reality round our way was that only applied to children who were eligible for deprivation supplement and in a setting with a graduate. The rest got £4.02 per hour. My LA will be able to say we already get the rates Sam Gyimah is quoting because they pay £3.78 base rate + £0.23 quality supplement + £0.87 deprivation supplement = £4.88 Of course lots and lots of settings are only getting the £3.78 base rate (a shortfall of over £600 per child per year)
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 And if 3 and 4 year olds don't qualify for EYPP??? We currently get topped up to £6 per hour for 2 year olds, so less than that is not good news. Rates vary so much across the country, and while I agree that everyone deserves to receive a fair rate, this will still leave some providers struggling to cover overheads. This is why we need to not pay VAT or business rates to put us on equal footing with maintained provision.
Masha Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 I've just had an email from the Foundation Years Team that says: Secretary of State for Education, Nicky Morgan, has announced the new average funding rate for the early years. The average hourly rate for free childcare for 3 and 4 year olds will be £4.88 including the EYPP, and for free 2 year old childcare will be £5.39. She also announced that a national early years funding formula review will also be conducted in 2016. As far as I can tell then that means no change in the funding rate. I'm sure LA finance departments up and down the country will be able to produce a bunch of bewildering sums and supplemental rates that prove that we're all being paid the correct amount - on average! 1
Rea Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 This https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479659/151124_Analytical_review_FINAL_VERSION.pdf and this might have some answers. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479601/DFE-RR493_Cost_of_providing_the_early_education_entitlement.pdf I'm not going not pretend to read them, I havent the time at the moment....nor the inclination! The time scales they give dont match with those of the minimum wage increases or the pension contributions! 1
Rafa Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Hmmm, this reminds me of when the 2 year old funding came in. I seem to remember there was an announcement that it would be funded at £5.19 per hour, but the reality round our way was that only applied to children who were eligible for deprivation supplement and in a setting with a graduate. The rest got £4.02 per hour. My LA will be able to say we already get the rates Sam Gyimah is quoting because they pay £3.78 base rate + £0.23 quality supplement + £0.87 deprivation supplement = £4.88 Of course lots and lots of settings are only getting the £3.78 base rate (a shortfall of over £600 per child per year) We only get £3.54 with supplements!! So if thats correct its BINGO for us! With or without EYPP.! Of course once the LA has taken their piece of the pie it might look VERY different - goal posts will be moved and hoops to jump through to get anything like that figure..... eg: base rate £3.52 and only those with EYT, EYP or QTS and have a Z in their name get any more!! Also as this is not happening until 2017 I may well have fallen off the edge by then!
thumperrabbit Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 And if 3 and 4 year olds don't qualify for EYPP??? Exactly - why do they make it sooooo confusing? :blink: We don't get any EYPP or Funded 2yr olds, so therefore shall I take it we'll just stay on the same £3.26
lsp Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Also as this is not happening until 2017 I may well have fallen off the edge by then! I'm coming with you Rafa!!! :unsure: 1
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 PSLA just tweeted that 42% of parents will meet new criteria for 30 hrs funding
eyfs1966 Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Do I not recall that the recent call for evidence of funding showed that calculating costs for early years was too complex for the number crunchers and therefore they were unable to even establish what a fair rate would be?? Yet suddenly we now seem to have a rate, disclosed 2 years ahead of time....( has a psychic been called in to foresee what our costs will be?) and yet again I completely fail to see how a 2 yr old can be funded at a rate like that, surely it should be close to double the 3 yr old rate??? Sad though I am to be closing I am relieved I'm not going to be around for all this mess.... 1
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