Funding consultation

[eyfs1966]

and whats the betting that the government did not even think about any of the effect this will have on funding rates when devising the budget!

[Mouseketeer]

I don't think they've given much thought to what the effect on anything will be....I'm still finding it hard to get my head around work 8 hrs get 30 hrs free childcare...madness !

 

Still I think I may have time to get hold of one those raffle ticket drums to put all the names in ;-p

Edited July 9, 2015 by Mouseketeer

[lynned55]

Have they actually stated the amount of hours that have to be worked to qualify for the 30 hours? All I can find is ALL working parents can claim UP TO 30 hours. Which suggests to me that it will be on some sort of scale. The more hours worked, the more 'free' childcare hours you get. Havent seen anything about 8 hours.

 

If thats the case quite how we will offer up places to new parents, not knowing their circumstances could prove a little difficult!!

[Guest]

Lynned: My understanding is that both parents have to be working more than 8 hours per week to qualify, but I have heard a whisper that says it might also be family income based eligibility because of complications with self employed and zero hours contracts - so who knows what it will finally be.

 

I have just done a quick calculation on the new living wage (on £7.20) based on a term time member of staff (paid over 44 weeks, not 38 weeks of term year) to cover leave, 5% NI contributions and 1% employer pension contribution and the hourly figure I come to including all the above mentioned on costs is £8.80 per hour

[lynned55]

I wonder what happens if you are on Maternity Leave or actively seeking work (as in JSA)

 

Anyway- I have recalculated and based on last years figures with an additional amount added to salaries for pensions and living wage I have calculated our costs to be just over £5 an hour. I am very surprised they are not more. This is also based on an average (20) number in each session although in reality 5 out of 8 sessions can be 5/8 children more. But if I based it on 25 children per session the figure went right down to around £3.8. So I'm still wondering if I'm doing this correctly. We are open for 26.5 hours per week, this is = 1007 hours per year. So I took our costs from last year deducted any fundraising etc. Added to salaries for the above mentioned plus additional bit for admin work I do for NO CHARGE etc. plus rent and ins etc. Divided all this by the 1007 hours we are open, then divided again by amount of children (20) and I was left with a figure of £5.25.

 

So quite surprised really. Admittedly our rent is fairly low (£30 per session) but I think compared to a lot of other groups in our area our wages are fairly decent. It just shows how much this varies from setting to setting. I also wonder if the government will do anything about the amount LA's actually pay us. Look how much it varies from borough to borough. I'm not sure what the actual amount they get per child but certainly for a lot of LA's it bares no relation to what is actually paid per child.

[Guest]

Lynned: I think you are doing it right. The only thing I would amend (if I have understood it correctly) is your deduction of income from fundraising from your costs. Your costs are your costs and, in my humle opinion, whatever you raise from other sources is income to re-invest not offset costs.What would your costs be based on current pay and conditions as I think thats useful info to feed into the funding consultation e.g. as a result of gov't policies our costs over the next five years will increase by....................

[Mouseketeer]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/440631/Childcare_Bill_-_policy_statement.pdf

 

I think I read about the 8 hrs here, but that's still only 16hrs if both parents working the 8hrs.

[SueJ]

I have rejigged my figures to take into account the new living wage and when it rises to £9 per hour I will need a £6.44 per hour funding rate (an increase of just under 40%) to cover the costs of providing the "free" entitlement.

 

This also takes into account the increase from 1% to 3% in the employer pension contribution that happens in 2018!!!!!

[lsp]

Just had to remind myself of the closing date -5pm 10 August.

[lynned55]

I found it Mouskeeter its this

 

Eligibility for the 30 hours will be:

• working parents with children aged three and four;

• parents working part-time or full-time – each parent must be working the equivalent of 8 hours per week at the national minimum wage;

• parents who are employed or who are self-employed; and lone parents who are working the equivalent of 8 hours per week at the national minimum wage to support their families.

I think the key point here is not that parents have to be working 8 hours but at the minimum wage!! I doubt that many of my parents would qualify- you just couldnt afford to leave in my area if both of you earn't just the min wage.

[Mouseketeer]

as long as it doesn't give rise to the 'You pay me a bit less an hour and I can claim 30 hours a week free childcare' or employers using it as leverage to keep people on minimum wage, not higher earners but those just above minimum wage, not sure how they will be able to police self employed either ...surely they could just say they earn't less an hour over more hours .....it's definitely going to be interesting to see how this pans out

Edited July 9, 2015 by Mouseketeer

[Rafa]

I found it Mouskeeter its this

 

Eligibility for the 30 hours will be:

 

 

• working parents with children aged three and four;

• parents working part-time or full-time – each parent must be working the equivalent of 8 hours per week at the national minimum wage;

• parents who are employed or who are self-employed; and lone parents who are working the equivalent of 8 hours per week at the national minimum wage to support their families.

 

I think the key point here is not that parents have to be working 8 hours but at the minimum wage!! I doubt that many of my parents would qualify- you just couldnt afford to leave in my area if both of you earn't just the min wage.

 

Am I understanding this right? - 30 free hours is only going to be available for those on minimum wage.?

 

If thats so Im sure a fair few that voted Tory on that policy alone didnt realise that!!

[lynned55]

Well that's the way is been written and that is certainly the way I am reading it. Although this is the first that I've seen about minimum wage, like lots of others I would assume.

[Guest]

So if parents work 16 hours a week between them, they need 30 hours childcare??? Don't get the logic there.

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that the House of Lords has said the propsed bill for the policy it too woolly and needs more detail to go forward. I also seem to recall this article mentioned something about very severe punishments (huge fine/imprisonment???) if settings failed to make correct checks about eligibility!

 

Will see if I can find a link.

[Guest]

Here it is

 

http://www.parenta.com/2015/07/06/ministers-agree-to-compromise-over-vague-and-flawed-childcare-bill/

 

Not posted a link before so hope it works. I haven't seen this anywhere else yet though.

[Rafa]

Here it ishttp://www.parenta.com/2015/07/06/ministers-agree-to-compromise-over-vague-and-flawed-childcare-bill/Not posted a link before so hope it works. I haven't seen this anywhere else yet though.

Well done, the link worked!! Made me chuckle......it's getting madder and madder.......

[lynned55]

How ridiculous. Well all I can say if there is any chance of a prison sentence for 'failing to do proper checks' then our setting will not be offering 30 funding to anyone. This really hasnt been thought out at all.

[Mouseketeer]

We could get a bit of rest in prison though lynned55 from the constant barrage of c**p thrown at us that we are expected to step up to time and time again

[Guest]

If anybody completed the Birmingham Council document where we had to review our costs to prove we couldn't afford a living wage and that we needed more money - this should help you complete this consultation.

 

I think the findings from that review showed it was unaffordable.

[Rafa]

I have holiday brain! : )

 

Can someone much more switched on then myself show me an EASY way of completing this consultation?

 

In maybe three or four easy steps.......? eg you have X - Y = no money!

 

Many thanks!

[Guest]

I have just done a quick calculation on the new living wage (on £7.20) based on a term time member of staff (paid over 44 weeks, not 38 weeks of term year) to cover leave, 5% NI contributions and 1% employer pension contribution and the hourly figure I come to including all the above mentioned on costs is £8.80 per hour

 

£8.36 here.

[MegaMum]

The PLA have published 2 documents to help us work ot the cost. It's at www.pre-school.org.uk.

Thank you government for my summer homework!!!

[Guest]

The PLA have published 2 documents to help us work ot the cost. It's at www.pre-school.org.uk.

Thank you government for my summer homework!!!

lol using the comprehensive guide to calculating the cost of the delivering childcare my figure from 8.36 turned out to be 2.44

 

Now I just need to sit down, look at my bank statement and find the PROFIT.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Oksana1975

[Inge]

PSLA documents found here

Edited July 15, 2015 by Inge

[sunnyday]

Thanks Inge! :1b

[Panders]

lol using the comprehensive guide to calculating the cost of the delivering childcare my figure from 8.36 turned out to be 2.44

 

Now I just need to sit down, look at my bank statement and find the PROFIT.

Are you sure there's not a misplaced decimal point there Oksana? If that is a true figure shhhhh!

[Guest]

I think I understand where the problem is. When the min funding is calculated it is probably done based on full capacity, for example, for two members of staff it can be 1:8 and 1:4, so 12 children. However, can anyone please tell me when you have a 3 y.o. child on your waiting list (who is over 1:8), will you wait for another 7 children to sign in order to offer a place? I doubt. Plus with the "flexibility" of the hours and constant emphasis on offering ONLY 15 funded hours (if parents need only funded hours), we do not operate at the full capacity all day. To be honest I hate this flexibility (even though I am also a parent and understand it from a parent point of view), because children arrive and leave at different time and it does not help our planning and timetable.

 

Please kick me out of this forum because the more I read the more pessimistic I become. :-(

[Panders]

 

Please kick me out of this forum because the more I read the more pessimistic I become. :-(

 

No getting out of here now - I feel the usual has happened and you will get addicted to the Forum and offer your wisdom to all! We all start thinking I'll just take a quick look, see if there is anything interesting on there and before you know it you are completely sucked in - checking it daily, checking it twice a day, checking it hourly just gets worse frankly.

[lsp]

Really Panders -surely not!

 

Oksana - it's your setting so you can be as flexible as works and is viable for you!!! We are small and having to have 2 staff members with just a handful of children works against us sometimes but just think of the wonderful impact that is for the children!!!

 

I had a quick look at the PLA document that was posted on this thread and I think there was an allowance for this situation. I may be wrong - so sorry in advance. Only 2 days left so getting a little giddy. Lolx

[BroadOaks]

I took a look at this and like many people have began to try to work out costings to find the costings to give an accurate answer, and i have yet to submit the details and i am finding it difficult.

 

It would be interesting to see the evidence needed to provide the large amounts of funding we give in foreign aid, for example, that seems to increase on a yearly basis!

 

We have children here in the UK who could benefit greatly from increased spending in the childcare sector and we have to jump through hoops to get it. it is obvious it needs increasing but lets wait and see!