Rea Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 You're quite right, it wouldnt be all of them, probably. But the chance of suddenly been at the beck and call of the council for another section of our playgroup leaves me cold.
LKeyteach Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Would also like to add to the two year funding discussion. I whole heartedly believe that giving 2 year olds from some backgrounds will give them added advantage when they start school. I cannot and will not argue with the theory here. Myargument is with the funding. As has already been pointed out, funding for 2 year olds is adequately meeting our fee. However when the children move onto 3 year funding the fee is not being met and if like many of us do, we need the "voluntary contribution" many of these parents cannot afford to pay them. The funding for 3 year olds needs to be looked at. I know what Government will say that I could make my service more affordable by losing some of my staff, but as I have said before my requirement of staff levels is what gives my setting the high quality that the government wants. I feel so frustrated, because I know that there are parents in my setting who would pay more to top up the free education entitlement and this would mean that I could take more funded 2 year olds and subsidise their place when they become 3 year olds. But I cannot because of not being able to charge a top up. 1
oopsydoopsy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) NHS is free ......and look at the state that's in !! When provision is 'free' in anything, people expect more and more and try to push the boundaries further. Our deficit between our hourly rate (£4.25) and our LEA provision is £1 per child per hour...so for each funded child we lose £15 per week and we have in excess of 60 children per week. We offer full flexibility in allowing hours to be taken .....and adhere strictly to the Code of Conduct ...........Sustainable ?I don't think so !! Any advice ? We receive £3.25 p/h from our LEA ....how does this compare with others, please ? Edited January 16, 2015 by oopsydoopsy
Foreveryoung Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 We prefer funded children at ours as we charge much, much less per session that our funded rate.
Panders Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) NHS is free ......and look at the state that's in !! When provision is 'free' in anything, people expect more and more and try to push the boundaries further. Our deficit between our hourly rate (£4.25) and our LEA provision is £1 per child per hour...so for each funded child we lose £15 per week and we have in excess of 60 children per week. We offer full flexibility in allowing hours to be taken .....and adhere strictly to the Code of Conduct ...........Sustainable ?I don't think so !! Any advice ? We receive £3.25 p/h from our LEA ....how does this compare with others, please ? In Kent we do get more than you per hour and settings which are graduate led get even more. Is it sustainable, no, lots of things we would have done once upon a time we don't any longer, just can't afford to. The answer lies in cutting your costs to the bone, and staffing costs at minimum levels and goodwill (not ideal). There are many many owners of pre-schools and nurseries who feel they have been hoodwinked by successive Governments, tricked into signing agreements years ago, which many of us don't remember them meaning or inferring that this is what it could lead to, I suspect we all thought 'that's nice the Government are helping out parents with childcare costs, that must be good for our families, they only have to top up to our level of fees now' which of course, is far from the truth as you have already pointed out the rules are strictly governed and top up fees are not allowed. Your LEA's answer will probably be you are over staffed you are legal with a person who has a Degree plus an assistant working at 1:13 ratios for 3's and over, open for longer hours, run lunch clubs, before and after clubs, make your 2's pay more. Edited January 16, 2015 by Panders 2
finleysmaid Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 as we charge much, much less per session that our funded rate. Why??????? 1
Fredbear Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Yes that would have been my question too. Our under threes pay .79 pence more than our funding allocation. Funding levels are now not fit for purpose in my humble. Our staff work hard, have trained as and when requested and yet their pay is quite frankly appalling. Not mine or our committees fault. The monies just not in the pot to do otherwise. 5
Foreveryoung Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Because we can, we are cater mainly for free entitlement as we do not offer full flexibility with our hours, we are a charity and our ethos is to put back into the community thus being able to keep cost very low we do we are looking at an increase in fees but still very much under funded amount we can manage to provide what we do -fantastic ratios most of time, resources, training etc- without touching our reserves then we carnt justify upping the fees. I do feel very honoured that we can do this ! I have before been on the other side of it and gosh it's hard much happier on this side lol
eyfs1966 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Just out of interest, have any of you recieved an uplift in your fenp payments? our hourly rate for 3 and 4 year olds has not been increased since summer 2010......
finleysmaid Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 grey matter trying to work out fenp??? free entitlement nursery xxxx???? 1
Foreveryoung Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 We (our LA) are getting an increase to base rate in April well not so much an increase but adjustment to make a level playing field which means to our setting an increase and then pupil premium however the powers that be are keeping there cards close to there chest on this at present so we shall see.
woodlands1997 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Ours has reduced! £3.01 for a funded 3/4 year old here!
thumperrabbit Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 £3.25 per hour for a 3/4 yr old here - it was reduced to this a couple of years ago - no news of any increase yet either Our fees are 30p more per 3 hr session than a funded 3 hr session
Mouseketeer Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 we are £3.91...we get a basic (can't remember what that is) then bits added for diff things, ofsted rating, how close next setting is etc..
eyfs1966 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) grey matter trying to work out fenp??? free entitlement nursery xxxx???? Yes, free nursery entitlement place (fnep) payment...sorry thought it was a standard term, but obviously not!! Edited January 17, 2015 by eyfs1966
finleysmaid Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 no we still use NEF...nursery education funding! 2
sunnyday Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 no we still use NEF...nursery education funding! or NEF Not Enough Funding 8
lynned55 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) or NEF Not Enough Funding Much more appropriate!! We get £3.60/£5.50 (3/4 years & 2 year funding) per hour and have done since 2010. We do get extra for graduate led etc but for majority its 3.60. However this is all changing in April and there have been big consultations over this (well thats what they call them!) Put simply - we have been offered 3 different scenarios to 'vote' on of which only one will benefit the PVI sector and involves the our schools forum voting for schools to lose around £10k per year. So yeah, right thats going to happen isnt it. It is all a little bit more involved than that but that's it really. Our fees are currently £4.50 per hour and we can only afford to charge that because we rent a church hall and they rent to us at an extremely low rate. To be honest we could afford to run without any extra funding if we could charge a top up fee. I know all the arguments for not charging however if we carry on as we are there will be NO choices for parents as groups like mine will fold. We charge extra for any extra hours children do over and above the 15 hours- some only want their 15 hours some will pay a little more. But unless something drastic is done over the next couple of years then, I wonder what will happen. My staff and i have been there for best part of 20 years for most of us and we keep going because of the goodwill that comes from us. Once I/they start leaving I wonder what will happen then- I cant see anyone else coming in and doing what I do or rather doing the amount that isnt in my job spec. Same with my staff unfortunately we are all becoming a little fed up with constantly being taken for granted by successive governments. Edited January 17, 2015 by lynned55 4
tish501 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Ours has reduced! £3.01 for a funded 3/4 year old here! Ours at mo is £4/£5.15.....but our manager completed her EYITT last year so 10p more hour (WOW!) but cant believe some are so low....we have meetings 3 times a year with our 'local council education leaders ' to keep up to date with changes etc....and about 2 years ago our meeting was very informative....we were told that they had been told that any government money given to councils for education etc...had to be passed on at the FRONT LINE.....i took this to mean US....in fact they went on to say people in the head jobs there....had lost their jobs to save money..free courses disappeared....and our funding went up about 20p an hour.They keep us informed of any changes at these meetings, What I mean to say for all this rambling.....PLEASE check your LEA budget.(perhaps their website)...perhaps you can find out if they have a schools forum where you can see how decisions are made regarding your rate....£3.01 is non sustainable....which county are you Woodlands if you dont mind saying ?...
woodlands1997 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 We are shropshire. 2 EYP's/ qualified teachers but no extra money for that, everyone gets the same as far as I am aware! I have tried to search online and find out but I'm not having much luck, I know the funding changed as we had a forum meeting which meant our funding changed but I think it changed by 1p! We get £4.96 for a funded 2 year old so that's not so bad.
tish501 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Still your 3 year old funding is really low......no-one charges that per hour for childcare not even a childminder....please try to contact other settings near you (I know they probably wont discuss the amount they get) but perhaps you can all get together and suggest an increase.I am sure the government are giving to your council,but they probably have diverted it.....or even your local MP they can pull strings to check out this unfair division of funds....good luck.Doing all mine this week...hate doing it.....so complicated.....
SueJ Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The gov. publishes a benchmarking tool so you can see your area or your statistical (not nec. geographic) neighbours. Planned spend and actual spend however are not nec. the same thing as funding rate received!!!!! https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-benchmarking-tool
woodlands1997 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 All settings get the same other than schools, including Childminders etc. They changed it recently as we used to get less than charity providers as a private provider and childminders got a different rate too but now everyone gets the same - apparently!!!
woodlands1997 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Just had a look at that sue - interesting! Says £3.48 per hour in there!
thumperrabbit Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Ours is higher on their too, by 30p A whole 98p less than our neighbours though!
woodlands1997 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I think ours is pretty much the lowest on there! One of our neighbouring counties is £1.05 more yet 2 year old funding less- interesting!!
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