Joint supervisors yes or no?

[Guest]

Hi there. I am brand new, so I hope I am in the right place for this topic.

 

I have just been appointed chair for our preschool by our committee Need ur help. My first duty as chair is to dissolve the current situation of joint supervisors! and create 1 supervisor & 1 deputy. This has come as a suggestion from our ofsted representative and agreed by committee that it makes most sense to manage the setting and the finances this way as we have had a tough last 12 months.

 

How on earth do I manage this? My first instinct is to deliver the factual information and then ask the staff to give a solution to committee at next meeting? Both are very qualified and very capable and neither will easily stand down. Which may cause its own set of problems. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[finleysmaid]

Can i just clarify...are they both doing the job at the moment and have a contract that says this?

 

 

 

And Welcome B)

[Fredbear]

A warm welcome. Think it really does come back to what it states in their contracts.

Do they job share at the moment.

Lots of private sector settings have more than one owner/ director, did Ofsted give a good reason for this suggestion.

Are you members of PSLA if yes, I would contact them for advice too.

[Guest]

Yes they are joint supervisors right now and have been for about 3 years. It gets tricky for pay mostly as we seem to pay them different rates when they are acting as supervisor. I.e they are supervisor at only some of the week so for those hours they are paid a higher rate and them lower rate for the hours when the other is supervisor.

 

I am about to do appraisals for them. There are only. 4 staff so for the 2 other staff have a different manager.

Hope this makes sense

[JacquieL]

As others had said it depends what it says their contracts. Someone can't just be demoted from a position without very good reason, and you could have a really difficult situation on your hands,. So check the contracts, and then I'd check with ACAS before doing anything that could backfire on you.

[Guest]

I have joint supervisors who job share the role and who are paid at one rate for when they have their supervisor hat on, and another when they are in an assistant role. It causes no problems as everyone knows when each is supervisor and they support each other at a very high level. why would OFSTED see this as a problem?

Edited May 16, 2013 by max321

[Inge]

We worked that way too... Joint supervisor who was paid rate on days they 'led' and different on 'deputy' days... worked like that for years very successfully with no problems

I was named manager, the person to liaise between committee and staff.. ( only 5 of us ) and named with Ofsted as such, and my job share was named deputy but the hours actually worked in the setting were shared leading with the deputy.. so wages evened out for both of us.. and as we were all level 3 we would often have a different member of staff named lead on some days .. gave them all enough confidence to be able to take over at any point.. worked for us.

 

it is after all purely a job share.. even though they are both in together, they share the 2 roles.there is continuity and if they work well together would not really find a need to change it.

 

as to the financial side.. what difference would it make other than make the calculations easier.. the outgoings would remain the same unless you plan on reducing the amount paid..

​always worth remembering advisor's give suggestions and if they are not right for you or don't work for you have the reasons ready and explain that you are happy with their performance so feel to change it would not benefit the group or children... with 2 people who know the group and setting so well there is often a better level of continuity for all. .

[lynned55]

I did joint supervisor for a number of years with someone else. Never caused us any problems with Ofsted or in the setting or between ourselves. However what did cause a tremendous amount of problems was when she decided she didn't want to do it anymore and just wanted to be an assistant. This was five years ago now and although the person that came in as Deputy is great it caused a lot of problems between them and with the ex supervisor and rest of staff. This was something that she wanted and I was happy for her to do. But if I wouldn't do it again. If my deputy ever decided she didn't want to be deputy I would want her to leave, I cant imagine what bad feeling this could perhaps cause if you are gong to be 'choosing' one over the other.

[Mouseketeer]

As Lynned says how do you choose one over other when both in, or do they get an equal share of hours each week, I'm a firm believer in one person needs to be responsible and that person should be employed if not all the hours setting open then nearly all, with a 2nd in command who covers when needed.....but that's just me

[Guest]

Thank you very much for all of your replies! It gives me a great feeling of comfort to know that it does work elsewhere as well. I was feeling very pressured to make these changes from past & current committee, as it had been a strong opposition from our local Ofsted adviser.

 

I decided to speak to the adviser directly and ask her 'WHY' this recommendation was so strong and 'HOW' it would make things better. It seems this message had been passed down by her predecessor and it was based on the financial implications! When I stated to her that only one person is paid to supervise at any one time, therefore there are no financial implications she said they would now look at removing the recommendation. HOORAH!

 

I must say I was feeling helpless when handed all of this, yet now I understand the reasons I can openly discuss and guide the staff and committee towards the best decision for everyone. I knew this was a disaster waiting to happen and I am so glad I came on here to gain from your expert knowledge.

 

thank you all.

[Inge]

Well done, glad it all worked out.

 

FSF is always a good place to come for varied replies from people who have worked in the area for many years.. in many different situations. Often it is just knowing the right questions to ask advisor's and be willing to not accept what they say without argument or questioning .. My stance was always ask the why and how will it benefit the children/us. and it they could justify it, would then say well we would give it consideration and maybe trial it but cannot guarantee it would be best for us.

It does take courage to do, but by asking others you can often get an answer to help.. it nay not always be what you expect though .

[Mouseketeer]

When did it become Ofsteds remit to question what/how staff are paid ...

[Wildflowers]

We are two settings with two members of staff in each, working together as equals every day, caring for

up to 12 children. I want both to be equally vigilant and take full responsibility for everything that happens

day-to-day as two sets of eyes and ears, and two brains are better than one. As both are a manager and

a deputy, then both are equally capable of leading when the other is unable to lead.

 

In our case it's not about contracts and pay, it's primarily about the working relationship between the two

colleagues. However, the EYFS states that there needs to be a named manager and a named deputy,

which is why our advisor don't think we can have continue with our current arrangement, which I'm very

unwilling to give up - what they want is what we had before, which didn't work well.

 

I would like Ofsted to tell me if this is 'illegal' before an inspection, but they leave it to us to interpret the

law, and it states 'manager' and 'deputy' in singular. Any thoughts what I could or should do? Thanks!

[lynned55]

Mornings one is named manager & the other is named deputy

Afternoons reverse it. Or if not open afternoons then do 2 mornings each with alternate Weds.

Honestly it isn't a problem we did it this way for years,just had both of us named as managers and deputies.

[Wildflowers]

You and your colleague are are both named manager and named deputy, swapping roles midday,

is that having any effect in practice, or are you working together sharing responsibilities throughout

the day? (Re. Lynned55's post)

[Rea]

I have to say, when I was manager and now that I'm chair, I tend to agree with the advisors but then do what works best for us

[Hayley75]

Help, I need some advise please:

 

I was taken on over 18 months ago as an associate supervisor but have since taken over much of the planning, structure and mgmt side but my supervisor is still getting the praise. Im not that bothered but am just about to be appraised by her and would like to be seen as a joint supervisor - how do I go about this help, no vacant position but feel i have earned this joint role?

[finleysmaid]

Help, I need some advise please:

 

I was taken on over 18 months ago as an associate supervisor but have since taken over much of the planning, structure and mgmt side but my supervisor is still getting the praise. Im not that bothered but am just about to be appraised by her and would like to be seen as a joint supervisor - how do I go about this help, no vacant position but feel i have earned this joint role?

are you committee run or is she the only boss?

[BroadOaks]

When did it become Ofsteds remit to question what/how staff are paid ...

Was going to say the same thing regarding money. Also as long as the role is being done and being done well with evidence to provide showing this then it could be 10 people job sharing this role! Might be a bit extreme and confusing for the children to have 10 people job sharing of course or would it?!!