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Warning That Ofsted Are Coming...so Mad...


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So cross at the moment, a local nursery attached to a school has had 2 days warning that Ofsted will be with them this week. they have therefore ensured their premises, activities and paperwork are all looking spick and span ready for inspection.

I work in a Preschool near this school nursery and we get no warning when Ofsted come. It is because they are attached to a school but i still can't help think it is very very unfair especially as there is nothing to indicate they had advance warning when they get their result.

I don't like being like this and having rivalry with other settings but at the end of the day parents look at Ofsted grades and reports. We are "good" currently as are they, so a lot of parents in the area split between our settings. My concern is now they have had warning they will get outstanding when they may not have been or deserve outstanding had Ofsted turned up like they do with us. In the long run we will lose business because we can never compete with their purpose built buildings and warnings ofsted are coming!! If they did get an Ofsted grade of outstanding genuinely then I would find this a lot easier to bear and be happy for them.

Reading this i sound like the worlds most nasty jealous person and i do genuinely wish them well as i would like all settings in our area to provide good childcare, I just don't like the fact they get warning when everyone else is what you see is what you get.....Am I being unreasonable???

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Hi I know it does seem unfair, but as we know schools are generally a much bigger facility than a nursery/ pre-school and they know to ensure management are going to be there to provide data etc. This has been the case for sometime the same as childminders not being in. I really wouldn't get so het up over it, continue to do all you do to provide a high quality provision. Ofsted can see through a setting that has it all picture perfect, but children that are disengaged etc.

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no your not being unreasonable but sadly its one rule for one - it has always been that way for both school linked and private nurseries but it is better that ofsted see you for who you are on the day - don't exert yourself with negative energy although i do understand where your coming from, we recently had our inspection , i had only been at setting 3 months , i did not get the outcome i had hoped for although the inspector was very positive, i shed tears and she told me not to worry about the parents -surveys showed they did not take much notice- and i have to say they have not - we struggle as we are in small village with so many other preschool and nurseries not far away -some of whom have outstanding- we just wow ours with our down to earth personalities and warm welcome and of course parent recommendations. x

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I understand what you mean, but since January, nurseries attached to schools don't get a seperate EYFS grade ( with reception). The whole school gets an Ofsted grading. So you can a have an outstanding nursery with a so-so school, and the outstanding bit for EYFS will be lost in the report somewhere.

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Also the ratings of providers are not standard. A good in a school is not the same good as a good in a preschool necessarily. I know that might seem harsh but it is true. Since the changes to ofsted it is much harder to get a good or outstanding in a school. I know of several private preschools in our area who have got outstanding or good and I know they are no better than ours. Yet for a parent, obviously a good is a good. So the system is not standardised.they are judged differently. I know this to be true as my head is an ofsted inspector. There is a preschool in our area that I have heard has got a good and i was amazed.i have visited it and the difference between theirs and ours was huge but we were both given a good because ours is a school based nursery and theirs is a private nursery. School nurseries are inspected against school criteria. It is pretty tough and it is exactly as the previous post has said. In schools the definition of good, outstanding etc is so linked to the Ks 1 and ks2 data it almost becomes a technical term. If the attainment isn't good enough, you won't get a good, even if the early years is very good. I know of several maintained nurseries who have had this experience and the residual feeling of injustice is very debilitating. We got a good so I was pleased but we know we a part of a whole, but I assume in preschools your fate is much more in your own hands.

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well according to our LEA the revised eyfs inspections for those on the childcare register will be looking much more at progress in the eyfs, so being the pessimist that I am, I assume our gradings will be tougher to maintain, just like those of schools. I agree in principal with no notice inspections, but absolutely believe they should be for all. Still, there are always winners and losers. Maintained provisions have lost the requirement for a sef, generally fare better financially despite the SFF and get notice, but potentially lower grades. Fair? No just different.

My feeling has always been that the PVI sector is and has always been the poor relation in early years, but maybe that's just sour grapes!!

Edited by eyfs1966
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Tomberley i feel you may have opened a can of worms here! i have posted before about my views and really feel that the inspection need to become more equitable. I assume dreamgirl is not suggesting that pre-schools work less hard than schools!! but i understand that everyone needs to feel they are being treated fairly....we have had good and bad experiences with ofsted...i don't know what the answers are but i don't really feel that parents are that worried about ofsted ratings because they will go with their gut feeling and the location, unless it shows significant issues. And i guess you can always use critisism to improve outcomes ....even if you feel miffed about it at the time

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Just to add to the mix here... I work in a nursery attatched to the school, and yes currently we do get two days notice, however that's as part of the whole school - we have to there fore help the whole school prepare for ofsted. And if the nursery you mention is anything like our school we knew we were due ofsted so therefore it was producing the data for the head rather than spending extra time on the environment or planning.

 

And to make things fairer, we have been told that soon (don't have a date, but think it was likely to be from September off top of my head) Ofsted will no longer be giving anyone advanced notice.

 

I know it still doesn't look fair, but trust me, having been to / worked in a few nurseries that are not part of a school, there are additional things we need to put in place to placate our head teacher!

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I totally agree and I dont think its about being jealous or spiteful - its about being fair and equal isnt it?

 

I spoke to a childminder recently who told me Ofsted called them prior to their visit (3 days) as they wanted to check the childminder would be in.

 

yes I think this system is very unfair.

Do Ofsted not have somewhere where views can be aired!

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Ofsted can see through a setting that has it all picture perfect, but children that are disengaged etc.

 

I am sorry to disagree but I have to say this.

 

No they can't.

 

I have seen this with my own eyes in a setting I worked in for a short while. The Ofsted inspector was completely taken in by the manager's charm and pretence. She gave them the same grade as another setting I also worked in which was 100 times better and in which the children were treated with far more respect and were a great deal more engaged, happy and stimulated.

 

I was sorely disappointed and vowed never to use an Ofsted rating to judge where to send my own children in the future.

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I am sorry to disagree but I have to say this.

 

No they can't.

 

I have seen this with my own eyes in a setting I worked in for a short while. The Ofsted inspector was completely taken in by the manager's charm and pretence. She gave them the same grade as another setting I also worked in which was 100 times better and in which the children were treated with far more respect and were a great deal more engaged, happy and stimulated.

 

I was sorely disappointed and vowed never to use an Ofsted rating to judge where to send my own children in the future.

 

Agreed Upsy Daisy. I used to read reports before I went to a setting on supply, I stopped bothering after I realised they werent worth the paper they were printed on. Some managers have the gift of the gab and some inspectors cant see through it. I would never use a report now.

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Yes I do agree somewhat with what you say, however I think that can be thrown back equally to Ofsted Inspectors to inspect thoroughly and not be taken in and charmed, but to inspect and grade by huge amounts of evidence and interaction with both staff, children and parents.

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In answer to Rbears question, yes Ofsted can be contacted on their website and value any comments made.

QUESTION.1 Whos inspecting the inspectors?? Feel Ofsted could do with a bit of quality control themselves! Agree with upseydaisey and Rea...not worth worrying about! Not consistant and Not helpful.....thats my experience.

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OOOO love this topic!!!

I agree one rule for all and that should include schools and knowing teachers they may too not want the notice, I do strongly feel that even if they are a bigger organisation they are being inspected for EYFS so they should then have the same 'just turn up guidlines' This then goes for childminders too (i am an independent pre-school right near a school but not on their grounds)

 

We all know that if we are really honest we put on a show when people visit/inspect and we are different!!! A just turn up inspection means a truer picture??? and noone has time to really change, if we are all doing the job well we should accept the turn up policy but so should schools and childminders. I often go out for a large part of the session and if Ofsted arrive they would have to come with us our plans would not change. I would expect them to share my thoughts/plans as I am there for the children not an inspection.

 

No meaning to offend anyone!!! Just my feeling. We feel we have things in order and in place as if Ofsted will turn up any day (we know all days are different as are the children) Booked Inspections Puts Pressure On Teachers! so pressure then can come accross to a child. I always remember my daughter telling me 'Ofsted are in and we have been doing everything different the teachers don't seem normal!' from the mouths of babes!!!

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QUESTION.1 Whos inspecting the inspectors?? Feel Ofsted could do with a bit of quality control themselves! Agree with upseydaisey and Rea...not worth worrying about! Not consistant and Not helpful.....thats my experience.

 

We actually had an inspectors inspector in during an inspection, was contacted on the first day of an inspection to say they were coming on day 2 and not to forewarn them ......not sure who inspects the inspectors inspector though ;p

 

I firmly believe it just depends who turns up the day to do your inspection on what your outcome will be !

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Am waiting to hear what the setting has recieved but having previously worked there myself I feel it may be quite a bit of fakery going on to impress, so I hope the inspector does get an honest picture and they get a true result. I did think about contacting Ofsted to put my opinion across but as we have good relationships on the whole with this nursery I don't want to jeopardise that really. It is a controversial subject by the looks of it, I still say it should be the same for everyone, warning or no warning I'm happy either way as long as I know everyone else is judged the same!!

Funny thing is when looking at reports they are so different from inspector to inspector, we have quite a thorough report in lots of detail whereas another I read was so brief, hardly any info! Luck of the draw I guess??

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We are on a school site and are supposed to be inspected at the same time as the school, so we therefore get notice via the school. However the school were inspected in January and we are still waiting so OFSTED don't always follow their own guidance. I actually preferred it when we didn't know as everyone just gets really stressed knowing they are coming(which was pointless as they didn't show).

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In the proposed new framework for schools from sept it is proposed that inspections will all be no notice for schools. Also that satisfactory will disappear and become equivalent to a notice to improve and will effectively put the school in a category - is this going to be the same for the revised EYFS inspection too does anyone know?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Looks like the 'no notice' inspections for schools is being ditched in favour of 'very short notice' - phone call the night before. I hope we get the same - the Ofsted consultation on new inspection arrangements to co-incide with new EYFS mentioned parity with schools in terms of notice given so it will be interesting to see if ours changes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17968468

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I've just read that Anju and I marvel at the fact heads and teachers should have notice because it sends the message they are trusted, I take it the rest of us arent then!!

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Well they got outstanding and apparently are all singing and all dancing according to Mrs Ofsted who told them they were extraordinary and had the wow factor. I can't help but think if she knew what we know and have seen and went in on a day unexpected she would probably think much differently. Not saying they are bad but they are not extraordinary and there has been a few unhappy parents come our way from them. I feel stuck between being happy for them/gutted for us and believe it or not am trying very hard not to be bitter about it!! Just think we will see the effects on our business now, and get a lot of childish competitiveness from this nursery, but all i can hope is they get no warning in future like us and a more honest inspection..

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I've just read that Anju and I marvel at the fact heads and teachers should have notice because it sends the message they are trusted, I take it the rest of us arent then!!

 

That was my thought too! I guess they didn't think anyone working in the PVI sector would be reading the reports on this announcement B)

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I feel a letter is needed.

 

I've emailed my MP -

Dear Mr McCabe, I wonder if you could ask Mr Gove to clarify a point he made in a recent speech which was published on the BBC web site regarding Ofsted inspections,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17968468

Particulary the comments below

"People fear that no-notice inspection sends a message that we don't trust the profession, that Ofsted has become an arm of the Spanish Inquisition or Sean Connery's Untouchables, that they have to be ready to storm in without any notice in order to deal with something that has gone drastically wrong - that was never the intention..." and

"It shows a lack of trust that, somehow in 48 hours you'll have everything swept under the carpet."

I have worked in Early years for years in both voluntary, private and council run settings, we have had no notice inspections for a number of years and while they can be a slight inconvenience they are manageable. I would like to know though why we dont have the same level of trust that Mr Gove seem's to think Head teachers and teachers should be given and why those of us in the PVI sector are treated differently.

 

He has been pretty good at getting replies from other ministers in the past. So I'll let you know when I hear anything.

Edited by Rea
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