job retention scheme looking less hopeful

[Mouseketeer]

Thank you for confirming that, that’s how I’d done it, just the months gross pay including me as a non-furloughed staff but someone was trying to tell me I couldn't include my wage in the total monthly wage only staff we’d furloughed.

[anju]

7 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

Thank you for confirming that, that’s how I’d done it, just the months gross pay including me as a non-furloughed staff but someone was trying to tell me I couldn't include my wage in the total monthly wage only staff we’d furloughed.

That’s certainly what I’ve done - hope it’s right!

[Mouseketeer]

17 minutes ago, anju said:

That’s certainly what I’ve done - hope it’s right!

Exactly ...someone has another view and then you doubt yourself all over again 🙈

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Mouseketeer

[lynned55]

Oh my word!! I still haven't done mine yet. Why are you choosing someone whose salary equates to that amount Mousie, why dont you just furlough your staff and then take that % of all of them? I'm only asking as you have to get staff to agree to be furloughed- so if they've agreed and the minimum is 3 weeks how can you go back and say you are now not furloughed OR how can you put in the claim for them and then they disagree??

So sorry, I dont want to confuse anyone again. But I feel exactly as Zigzag does- sick of all of it and shouldn't be doing it! Got to do the same next month as well!

 

[lynned55]

Doesnt this show how confusing this all is. All of us are doing something different. and I still cant understand why people are working out a % of their private income (no I know why they are doing that) but why-  if your % is 25% - why dont you calim for 25% of each staff members salary. Why are we supposed to take 25% off 80% of our salaries and then claim that?

It's ok- you dont have to answer me - I dont really know what I'm asking myself!

 

[anju]

19 minutes ago, lynned55 said:

Doesnt this show how confusing this all is. All of us are doing something different. and I still cant understand why people are working out a % of their private income (no I know why they are doing that) but why-  if your % is 25% - why dont you calim for 25% of each staff members salary. Why are we supposed to take 25% off 80% of our salaries and then claim that?

It's ok- you dont have to answer me - I dont really know what I'm asking myself!

 

 

25 minutes ago, lynned55 said:

Oh my word!! I still haven't done mine yet. Why are you choosing someone whose salary equates to that amount Mousie, why dont you just furlough your staff and then take that % of all of them? I'm only asking as you have to get staff to agree to be furloughed- so if they've agreed and the minimum is 3 weeks how can you go back and say you are now not furloughed OR how can you put in the claim for them and then they disagree??

So sorry, I dont want to confuse anyone again. But I feel exactly as Zigzag does- sick of all of it and shouldn't be doing it! Got to do the same next month as well!

 

It’s crazy isn’t it  The 80% is (I think) because that’s the maximum anyone in the country can claim - that’s the baseline kind of thing. And then we are only allowed to claim the relevant percentage of that.

My staff have been fine about being unfurloughed - I told them to just disregard my furlough letter. But I’m paying them 100% whether furloughed (one person) or not (the others) so it doesn’t matter to them. Whether unfurloughing is  ‘allowed’ I’ve no idea but I don’t think it will be a problem. Naive maybe!!

 

[Stargrower]

I'm paying 80% and claiming 40%.  I intended to pay 100% but can't afford to now.  All my staff were due a pay increase this month too but that now can't happen, only  for the very few on living wage.

[anju]

1 minute ago, Stargrower said:

I'm paying 80% and claiming 40%.  I intended to pay 100% but can't afford to now.  All my staff were due a pay increase this month too but that now can't happen, only  for the very few on living wage.

It’s pretty dire isn’t it. I stupidly committed to 100% for April and May when I thought we’d be getting the full JRS and I also gave everyone pay rises rather than just the minimum wage people. Don’t feel I can go back on either but it won’t be possible to pay 100% for any longer than that. And the reserves I thought I’d have to plug the annual deficit in the Autumn Term will be gone.

 

[Mouseketeer]

3 hours ago, lynned55 said:

Oh my word!! I still haven't done mine yet. Why are you choosing someone whose salary equates to that amount Mousie, why dont you just furlough your staff and then take that % of all of them? I'm only asking as you have to get staff to agree to be furloughed- so if they've agreed and the minimum is 3 weeks how can you go back and say you are now not furloughed OR how can you put in the claim for them and then they disagree??

So sorry, I dont want to confuse anyone again. But I feel exactly as Zigzag does- sick of all of it and shouldn't be doing it! Got to do the same next month as well!

 

Hi Lynned, I haven’t looked at the portal yet to see if it’s possible to claim a lower % for all, but the guidance says about combining staff whose salaries are no greater that the ‘private income’ % you’ve worked out, but I image it’s going to work out 80% of the staff you can get closest to the max you can claim .....but I could have misunderstood that and the min 3 wks is almost up for us so I can decide who to keep in or take out, I know they need to agree but why wouldn’t they, ours are all on full pay if they didn’t agree they’d likely all be offered a reduction in hours...maybe I’ll take them off and furlough myself ;-p 

[Mouseketeer]

38 minutes ago, anju said:

It’s pretty dire isn’t it. I stupidly committed to 100% for April and May when I thought we’d be getting the full JRS and I also gave everyone pay rises rather than just the minimum wage people. Don’t feel I can go back on either but it won’t be possible to pay 100% for any longer than that. And the reserves I thought I’d have to plug the annual deficit in the Autumn Term will be gone.

 

My committee went back on pay increases they’d planned to give to all above NLW.

[anju]

17 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

My committee went back on pay increases they’d planned to give to all above NLW.

Wow. Not good. But very difficult to know what to do for the best. 

[louby loo]

I"m just glad I'd didn't offer 100% at any point. If I'm honest I did think it was all a bit to good to be true.  

In my furlough letter I actually but 'if the government doesn't backtrack on it's offer we should be able to top up lost wages when we return to normal working". I have absolutely no issue with using funding to pay wages- I would just like some help paying my fixed costs- we cannot claim any other help. 

 

 

[anju]

4 minutes ago, louby loo said:

I"m just glad I'd didn't offer 100% at any point. If I'm honest I did think it was all a bit to good to be true.  

In my furlough letter I actually but 'if the government doesn't backtrack on it's offer we should be able to top up lost wages when we return to normal working". I have absolutely no issue with using funding to pay wages- I would just like some help paying my fixed costs- we cannot claim any other help. 

 

 

I don’t care where the money comes from at all - I don’t pay for certain things from funding and others from private income; it’s all put together. I didn’t expect to make such a loss that’s all. I’m hoping to receive £600 in job retention scheme grant but will lose £2000 over the same time period in private fees. As I’m not charging parents while we are closed. And we can’t apply for the small business grant. 

[louby loo]

10 minutes ago, anju said:

I don’t care where the money comes from at all - I don’t pay for certain things from funding and others from private income; it’s all put together. I didn’t expect to make such a loss that’s all. I’m hoping to receive £600 in job retention scheme grant but will lose £2000 over the same time period in private fees. As I’m not charging parents while we are closed. And we can’t apply for the small business grant. 

Sounds like us. I mean how on earth can you charge parents at a time like this? .  

Funding for us is a biggie in the Summer term as it over flows to cover quiet autumn term (like many others) I guess the government is saying is that that shouldn't happen and funding should be used wholly for the term the children are with you- which all be fine and dandy if the funding was a little higher in the first place.

[anju]

7 minutes ago, louby loo said:

Sounds like us. I mean how on earth can you charge parents at a time like this? .  

Funding for us is a biggie in the Summer term as it over flows to cover quiet autumn term (like many others) I guess the government is saying is that that shouldn't happen and funding should be used wholly for the term the children are with you- which all be fine and dandy if the funding was a little higher in the first place.

Exactly!

[playgroup1]

I have put in a claim with the help of a fantastic man from HMRC who asked me for all the information and sorted it for me.

[anju]

25 minutes ago, playgroup1 said:

I have put in a claim with the help of a fantastic man from HMRC who asked me for all the information and sorted it for me.

That’s great 😊

What percentage of your wage bill were you able to claim - was it roughly what you thought it would be? 

[zigzag]

29 minutes ago, playgroup1 said:

I have put in a claim with the help of a fantastic man from HMRC who asked me for all the information and sorted it for me.

Wow, how did you manage that?

[playgroup1]

I have put in a claim with the help of a fantastic man from HMRC who asked me for all the information and sorted it for me.

[playgroup1]

I went on the HMRC webchat but not with too much hope as I tried before and they weren't able to help and just told me to phone. But this time, the man seemed to genuinely wanted to help. He said that they were all still trying to work there way through the system and that no one really knew how to deal with the particular situatioin with nurseries. Anyway after lots of questions back and forward and him going off to ask someone else, he said he could help me put in the claim if I had all the information. So he rang me back even though the phone lines had closed by this time.

I talked him through my calculations:

"My income doesn't change from week to week only term to term when some children change their hours or move onto FEEE so I have been able to look at Spring Term (which includes February) and see what income comes from each child for that week. I have worked out that from total income, 27.3% comes from parent paid fees and the remainder in funding so I think I can claim 27.3 % of my staffing costs back."

I worked out how much that worked out to each week:

First 80% of staff costs was ? and then 27% of that was the amount to claim. He took this figure and said he would make it work so that was the amount I would be claiming. He worked out how much that was for the period up to 7th May, added in the pension contributions I make for one member of staff and told me what the total amount for the claim was. He then took the details of all staff (only 5), names and NI numbers and gave me a claim number. What he actually did I don't know though but I should be able to see the claim when I log into the Government Gateway. He did say though that it could still be queried so I am keeping fingers crossed!

I'm not sure how much help this is to you all but if I find out any more I'll post it.

Just wanted to let you know that there is help out there if you can just find the right person.. It turned out he only lived just up the road from playgroup!

Good luck Maybe as the days pass, they'll have more idea how to deal with our unique situation.

[anju]

1 hour ago, playgroup1 said:

I went on the HMRC webchat but not with too much hope as I tried before and they weren't able to help and just told me to phone. But this time, the man seemed to genuinely wanted to help. He said that they were all still trying to work there way through the system and that no one really knew how to deal with the particular situatioin with nurseries. Anyway after lots of questions back and forward and him going off to ask someone else, he said he could help me put in the claim if I had all the information. So he rang me back even though the phone lines had closed by this time.

I talked him through my calculations:

"My income doesn't change from week to week only term to term when some children change their hours or move onto FEEE so I have been able to look at Spring Term (which includes February) and see what income comes from each child for that week. I have worked out that from total income, 27.3% comes from parent paid fees and the remainder in funding so I think I can claim 27.3 % of my staffing costs back."

I worked out how much that worked out to each week:

First 80% of staff costs was ? and then 27% of that was the amount to claim. He took this figure and said he would make it work so that was the amount I would be claiming. He worked out how much that was for the period up to 7th May, added in the pension contributions I make for one member of staff and told me what the total amount for the claim was. He then took the details of all staff (only 5), names and NI numbers and gave me a claim number. What he actually did I don't know though but I should be able to see the claim when I log into the Government Gateway. He did say though that it could still be queried so I am keeping fingers crossed!

I'm not sure how much help this is to you all but if I find out any more I'll post it.

Just wanted to let you know that there is help out there if you can just find the right person.. It turned out he only lived just up the road from playgroup!

Good luck Maybe as the days pass, they'll have more idea how to deal with our unique situation.

Thank you so much for taking the time

to explain all this. 

[lynned55]

Yes thank you. I am booked onto a web thing with HMRC this afternoon- so will have to bite the bullet and sort it after that.

I was under the impression that the EYA were going to try and do some sort of calculator for us- but cannot find now where I got that info from so it'snot looking likely now. I had committed to paying all staff through to September full pay anyway-providing we got the full funding & even before this came through as we have managed to build up a healthy reserve. But did warn them that we would then have no money for emergencies, sick pay and possibly they would all have to go on short time in September. I thought if I furloughed them and could claim back even just 20% it would help us for next term. So we will see. I'm at the point now where I'm thinking what will be will be. I cant worry anymore about 1/2 or even 3/4 years time, I can only do what I think is best for now. This is not my business, I am just an employer although  I think the majority of my staff (& committee) dont realise that or choose to forget!!

We normally renew contract, give salary increases etc for May's payroll but I'm just keeping it the same.  I have two staff that would have needed increase in salaries for NMW & therefore having a knock on effect for others. However I'm not giving anyone a salary rise this year (may give myself one though) and will sort out the NMW workers when we go back. I dont actually think anyone will moan- if they do I will remind them of all this time they have had off on full pay.

[lynned55]

That was a joke BTW about giving myself a payrise!

 

[Mouseketeer]

3 hours ago, lynned55 said:

. I cant worry anymore about 1/2 or even 3/4 years time, I can only do what I think is best for now. This is not my business, I am just an employer although  I think the majority of my staff (& committee) dont realise that or choose to forget!!

I feel the same Lynned at the end of the day we are employees too and nobody takes that on board, sod our well-being hey?, not one of my staff (all furloughed on full pay at the moment) have even asked how it’s going and the committee seem to have vanished off the face of the earth 😠

[zigzag]

Mouseketeer I tried logging on today after having the same trouble as you with the PAYE not being recognised and Nicci assuring me that I was registered, it’s not accepting it, so can’t access the furlough part.  Have emailed Payroll and had no response. I am so sick of this now.😥

[Mouseketeer]

4 minutes ago, zigzag said:

Mouseketeer I tried logging on today after having the same trouble as you with the PAYE not being recognised and Nicci assuring me that I was registered, it’s not accepting it, so can’t access the furlough part.  Have emailed Payroll and had no response. I am so sick of this now.😥

That is crazy zigzag 😠 I’m going to put my big girl pants on and see if I can see this portal thing ....I'm not saying I’m going to actually do it, I’m expecting to hit a problem with the UTR number (if I can get that far) I have one from setting up for the free childcare tax scheme but a couple of years a go a new cm clicked the wrong thing doing the EY2 and made themselves the NP, ofsted automatically update HMRC with that info and they became the registered person for the childcare tax scheme and I had a week of hell putting that right, Ofsted had to talk to HMRC in the end to reinstate me and I seem to think we got sent a different UTR letter ....I don’t know which one I have now and can only find one 🤦‍♀️

[zigzag]

Oh remember those lovely days when all we had to worry about was the dreaded EY2s! I am a bit frustrated that I was advised by Nicci that I was registered for PAYE! I would have contacted HMRC when you did Mouseketeer and tried to sort it before the portal opened and everyone wants help! I don’t know what to do about it now!

[Mouseketeer]

21 minutes ago, zigzag said:

Oh remember those lovely days when all we had to worry about was the dreaded EY2s! I am a bit frustrated that I was advised by Nicci that I was registered for PAYE! I would have contacted HMRC when you did Mouseketeer and tried to sort it before the portal opened and everyone wants help! I don’t know what to do about it now!

I would try the HMRC online helpline (they were more helpful than the employer helpline), if you can get past the security questions they will just email you the gateway ID and another email to change the password, if you can’t pass the security questions you will probably have to go to the employer helpline and tell them whoever set it up is no longer associated with the business, they can then make the existing one defunct so you can set up a new one. I do think the phone line people were more knowledgeable than the webchat people ...and I spoke to a few! 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Mouseketeer

[lynned55]

Oops! Forgot about the UTR- I hope I can find it- I know we were sent one when the tax free childcare stuff was set up but that was so long ago and I'm not even sure if I have it at home. I have everything else I need. I think if I dont have it- then I will give up. We can only claim 22% anyway and like everyone else am so sick of it. Like you Mousie my staff (except my Dep) all seem to think that being furloughed and not allowed to work also means they cant ask how anything is going. All I seem to do is moan at the moment and I havent even attempted to use HMRC yet. Really though it's been such hard work getting to this stage that I cant see inputting the data could be any worse! Maybe I'll furlough myself next month

[louby loo]

Any one seen the Mary Popping v Miss Hannagan Meme........... my husband sent it to me saying it was me this week