job retention scheme looking less hopeful

[lynned55]

one other thing- have just looked at your spreadsheet Anju- and it makes perfect sense to me- except I (and this is the one thing John & I did agree on) would  use the figure of income that SHOULD have been for Feb.(so take from invoices ) I had a couple pay late.

The main disagreement we had was  he is saying that doing it this way (using Feb figures) rather than an average over the year means we will get much less for March as we had full funding to the end of March but private funding only until 20th- Most of April we would have been shut for as well. Sorry- said one thing and it's ended up 1/2 dozen!!

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by lynned55

[anju]

1 minute ago, lynned55 said:

one other thing- have just looked at your spreadsheet Anju- and it makes perfect sense to me- except I (and this is the one thing John & I did agree ) to use the figure of income that SHOULD have been for Feb. I had a couple pay late. However he is saying that doing it this way (using Feb figures) rather than an average over the year means we will get much less for March as we had full funding to the end of March but private funding only until 20th- Most of April we would have been shut for as well. Sorry- said one thing and it's ended up 1/2 dozen!!

 

Blimey I’m now not sure if it’s 80% of the 13% 😂 My accountant is submitting the claim so I assume she will sort that bit.

I’ll have to process the second bit - I used the income we actually received in Feb which is on the bank statement as I thought that’s what they require and might check? But I’m not sure and in your case if it makes a lot of difference then it may be better to do it as an average? 
 

will look again about the 80% - I may be being overly pessimistic and maybe it’s 100% of the 13% 🤞🏽

[lynned55]

Well I've seen other people saying it's 80% of whatever your private income is- that's why I asked. Using what we should have been paid makes a difference of just over £1000 -so worth me using it. Will show on the bank statement but in March. To be honest its not a lot we will get back either way- so if they come after us then .............. they can have it bak!

 

[anju]

9 minutes ago, lynned55 said:

one other thing- have just looked at your spreadsheet Anju- and it makes perfect sense to me- except I (and this is the one thing John & I did agree on) would  use the figure of income that SHOULD have been for Feb.(so take from invoices ) I had a couple pay late.

The main disagreement we had was  he is saying that doing it this way (using Feb figures) rather than an average over the year means we will get much less for March as we had full funding to the end of March but private funding only until 20th- Most of April we would have been shut for as well. Sorry- said one thing and it's ended up 1/2 dozen!!

 

I did the funding income for February (which related to 3 weeks worth as we were closed for half term) and then the 3 weeks private income from Feb as well 

[lynned55]

Hmm, I forgot the income was 3 weeks- 

 

[louby loo]

3 minutes ago, anju said:

Blimey I’m now not sure if it’s 80% of the 13% 😂 My accountant is submitting the claim so I assume she will sort that bit.

I’ll have to process the second bit - I used the income we actually received in Feb which is on the bank statement as I thought that’s what they require and might check? But I’m not sure and in your case if it makes a lot of difference then it may be better to do it as an average? 
 

will look again about the 80% - I may be being overly pessimistic and maybe it’s 100% of the 13% 🤞🏽

Well if they look on a bank statement for my income in February it's going to be zero      Fee's paid first two weeks in Jan, funding paid in jan and march..... maybe I'm missing at trick here, and I can claim loadsa money 

[anju]

2 minutes ago, lynned55 said:

Well I've seen other people saying it's 80% of whatever your private income is- that's why I asked. Using what we should have been paid makes a difference of just over £1000 -so worth me using it. Will show on the bank statement but in March. To be honest its not a lot we will get back either way- so if they come after us then .............. they can have it bak!

 

It’s not to do with the actual private income, it’s the proportion of private income to funded income - I think that’s where some of the confusion is. That’s what I think anyway...

 

 

 

[lynned55]

Sorry what I meant was 80% of whatever your proportion was. See- trying to explain this even to someone 'in the know' is difficult

[anju]

2 minutes ago, louby loo said:

Well if they look on a bank statement for my income in February it's going to be zero      Fee's paid first two weeks in Jan, funding paid in jan and march..... maybe I'm missing at trick here, and I can claim loadsa money 

Literally lolled at that 😂

unusually, my fees were pretty much paid on time that month within the due month so it’s irrelevant to me but I can see how it wouldn’t be for others 

[anju]

1 minute ago, lynned55 said:

Sorry what I meant was 80% of whatever your proportion was. See- trying to explain this even to someone 'in the know' is difficult

Oh that’s what I thought you meant to start with, then I wasn’t sure! Will look at the guidance again...

[lynned55]

2 minutes ago, louby loo said:

Well if they look on a bank statement for my income in February it's going to be zero      Fee's paid first two weeks in Jan, funding paid in jan and march..... maybe I'm missing at trick here, and I can claim loadsa money 

But your funding was for the term and presumably so was your private fees- so some of it was income for Feb. Take my advice - I am going to unfurlough my staff as soon as I possibly can, Anju has done all but one of hers - its not worth the hassle 

[louby loo]

Just now, lynned55 said:

But your funding was for the term and presumably so was your private fees- so some of it was income for Feb. Take my advice - I am going to unfurlough my staff as soon as I possibly can, Anju has done all but one of hers - its not worth the hassle 

At the moment none of mine a furloughed.  I'm giving it a week or so and may sign up one staff member.  

I think we'll all be going back soon anyway.  As I  said on another post- I think the government are making it as hard as possible for us to stay closed for very long. 

[lynned55]

I'l let you know how I get on. I did think I would leave it until the end of the week- knowing HMRC I was convinced the portal would crash on the first day!! I was wrong!

[anju]

In the example in the guidance it says something like ‘if your funded income is 40% and private is 60% then you can claim support under the CJRS for 60% of your payroll.’ So I thought by ‘support under the CJRS’ it referred to the original support of 80% and you’d claim 60% of 80%. Also, if you take it to its logical conclusion, if the private income was 90% of the income and you didn’t apply 80% then you’d claim 90% of your wage bill which is even higher than the original?? I don’t know to be honest!’

[Mouseketeer]

I don’t think it helps that the guidance is poorly written, when I read those 2 paragraphs I read a different calculation ....the first 60% of 80% (CJRS) and the second 60% of 100% (total pay bill)

[anju]

7 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

I don’t think it helps that the guidance is poorly written, when I read those 2 paragraphs I read a different calculation ....the first 60% of 80% (CJRS) and the second 60% of 100% (total pay bill)

Yes it’s not very clear

[lynned55]

Exactly- it's so badly written. 

[nomski100]

My accountant worked it out as:

Add your funded payment with you fee paying amount together from end Feb.  then work out what percent is the fee paying amount from the two added together. For example £21000 + £4300 =£25300 so the £ 4300 is 17% (well it’s 16.99%) 

Now you need to add up all your furloughed staff wages up and work out 80% of that figure. 

Now with that figure work out 17% of it...... and that’s what furlough you will get back. 

Every time you apply( for example every month) you can not change you paying families fees, you have to use February but you can change the amount you get for funding into the portal. 

I am not saying this is correct but that’s what we submitted. 

[NBBubbles]

So ........

If your income from private fees and fundraising is £30,000 and your income from funding is 90,000 then you have total income of £120,000.  

£30,000 is therefore 25% of your total income for the pre-school or nursery.  So as you still receive the funding you are 'short' by 25% of your total income.

So if your monthly wage bill is say £10,000, you can furlough staff to the amount of £2,500.00.  

The next bit is where I am lost - as it is the gross salary for your employee/s plus national insurance contributions and pension contributions, so I don't know how to work out how many staff we can furlough to get near to the amount (for us our private income makes up 34% of our total income including funding).  How do you work out  what the gross salary plus NI contributions would be?  And do you take each member of staff's gross income and then work out 80& of their salary and by juggling with the staff who earn different amounts, try to come up with staff whose 80% of salary = the amount of furlough money we can apply for?  I don't think I even understand what I'm asking!

 

[nomski100]

3 minutes ago, NBBubbles said:

So ........

If your income from private fees and fundraising is £30,000 and your income from funding is 90,000 then you have total income of £120,000.  

£30,000 is therefore 25% of your total income for the pre-school or nursery.  So as you still receive the funding you are 'short' by 25% of your total income.

So if your monthly wage bill is say £10,000, you can furlough staff to the amount of £2,500.00.  

The next bit is where I am lost - as it is the gross salary for your employee/s plus national insurance contributions and pension contributions, so I don't know how to work out how many staff we can furlough to get near to the amount (for us our private income makes up 34% of our total income including funding).  How do you work out  what the gross salary plus NI contributions would be?  And do you take each member of staff's gross income and then work out 80& of their salary and by juggling with the staff who earn different amounts, try to come up with staff whose 80% of salary = the amount of furlough money we can apply for?  I don't think I even understand what I'm asking!

 

I worked  out your as £2000😬

wages £10000 80% of this is £8000 then 25% of that is £2000. So your total back from furlough is £2000🤔........

I could be wrong😬😬😬😬😬😬😬

[NBBubbles]

3 minutes ago, nomski100 said:

I worked  out your as £2000😬

wages £10000 80% of this is £8000 then 25% of that is £2000. So your total back from furlough is £2000🤔........

I could be wrong😬😬😬😬😬😬😬

Ah, that's because I thought we could furlough staff up to 25% of our wage bill  - so up to £2,500 and then work out how many staff (at 80% of their wages) come to £2,500.  Otherwise we are not getting 25% of our wage bill, we are getting 80% of our wage bill and then 25% of that 

[anju]

27 minutes ago, nomski100 said:

My accountant worked it out as:

Add your funded payment with you fee paying amount together from end Feb.  then work out what percent is the fee paying amount from the two added together. For example £21000 + £4300 =£25300 so the £ 4300 is 17% (well it’s 16.99%) 

Now you need to add up all your furloughed staff wages up and work out 80% of that figure. 

Now with that figure work out 17% of it...... and that’s what furlough you will get back. 

Every time you apply( for example every month) you can not change you paying families fees, you have to use February but you can change the amount you get for funding into the portal. 

I am not saying this is correct but that’s what we submitted. 

Yep that’s what I reckon and my accountant agreed with this method of working it out too 

[Mouseketeer]

Do you think this is what they meant when they said ‘keep your calculations’ 

[nomski100]

Just now, Mouseketeer said:

Do you think this is what they meant when they said ‘keep your calculations’ 

Lol 😂 

[anju]

1 minute ago, Mouseketeer said:

Do you think this is what they meant when they said ‘keep your calculations’ 

Yes!! 😍

[zigzag]

I have no words 😶 and this is my current state of mind on this issue 😢😬😡😲🤯😳😱💩

[GFCCCC]

Our accountant prepared our claim for the full 80% and it was done last week before the new information came out over the weekend and he submitted it first thing yesterday without knowing anything about it. I am going to wait and see what happens!

[anju]

57 minutes ago, GFCCCC said:

Our accountant prepared our claim for the full 80% and it was done last week before the new information came out over the weekend and he submitted it first thing yesterday without knowing anything about it. I am going to wait and see what happens!

OMG!! 

[Mouseketeer]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

might be time to have a play with this, just emailed from payroll.

[anju]

1 minute ago, Mouseketeer said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

might be time to have a play with this, just emailed from payroll.

I think this is the generic one for most businesses to use but not out sector?? Not sure though