job retention scheme looking less hopeful

[louby loo]

2 hours ago, Mouseketeer said:

Is anyone else planning on applying for the ‘Local Authority Discretionary Grant’? I’m going to try on point 24. Charity rates relief not being entitled to claim the SBRG, it will be unfair if they means test as businesses entitled to SBRG weren’t so we’ll see, but might be worth a shot if anyone fell through the ‘small business grant rates relief’ net. 
 

I have to do my next furlough claim today, also have a ‘corporation tax reminder’, I was supposed to reapply for an access code for that but it got totally overlooked in the trying to sort out a way to access the furlough scheme through the PAYE account, does anyone realize this is supposed to be half term as in no pay half term for lots of us  🤦‍♀️

I"ve literally just filed a 'nile to pay' on the corporation tax website. I haven't actually filled the account yet though .

I didn't ask for any codes- just the payment ref on letter.  I'll file the accounts some point next week. (if I remember that is!)

[Mouseketeer]

31 minutes ago, louby loo said:

I"ve literally just filed a 'nile to pay' on the corporation tax website. I haven't actually filled the account yet though .

I didn't ask for any codes- just the payment ref on letter.  I'll file the accounts some point next week. (if I remember that is!)

 

31 minutes ago, louby loo said:

I"ve literally just filed a 'nile to pay' on the corporation tax website. I haven't actually filled the account yet though .

I didn't ask for any codes- just the payment ref on letter.  I'll file the accounts some point next week. (if I remember that is!)

Oops it’s quoted twice and no idea how to delete one.

How did you do that Louby? I logged in but it said I needed an access code to use the scheme (I’d had one sent for the account no one could sort out for furlough so now need another as it expired).

when I logged in it said I had an over due amount of £39 to pay 😟 no idea why as I’ve paid what payroll told me to pay so it has to be this Sodding furlough nonsense, I’m presuming it’s to do with NI/pension on top up payments,, I’m sure I wasn’t asked that on the first claim but is in this one I’ve just done ....but who knows or cares, I’ve sent the question to my very helpful payroll team 🤷‍♀️

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mouseketeer

[sunnyday]

53 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

 

Oops it’s quoted twice and no idea how to delete one.

How did you do that Louby? I logged in but it said I needed an access code to use the scheme (I’d had one sent for the account no one could sort out for furlough so now need another as it expired).

when I logged in it said I had an over due amount of £39 to pay 😟 no idea why as I’ve paid what payroll told me to pay so it has to be this Sodding furlough nonsense, I’m presuming it’s to do with NI/pension on top up payments,, I’m sure I wasn’t asked that on the first claim but is in this one I’ve just done ....but who knows or cares, I’ve sent the question to my very helpful payroll team 🤷‍♀️

I think 'who knows or cares' might become my new mantra Mousie

[louby loo]

5 hours ago, Mouseketeer said:

 

Oops it’s quoted twice and no idea how to delete one.

How did you do that Louby? I logged in but it said I needed an access code to use the scheme (I’d had one sent for the account no one could sort out for furlough so now need another as it expired).

when I logged in it said I had an over due amount of £39 to pay 😟 no idea why as I’ve paid what payroll told me to pay so it has to be this Sodding furlough nonsense, I’m presuming it’s to do with NI/pension on top up payments,, I’m sure I wasn’t asked that on the first claim but is in this one I’ve just done ....but who knows or cares, I’ve sent the question to my very helpful payroll team 🤷‍♀️

I just went the site mentioned on the letter. I did have to have a little look around though.

[Mouseketeer]

14 minutes ago, louby loo said:

I just went the site mentioned on the letter. I did have to have a little look around though.

I’m going to do that too, when I phoned HMRC to ask why’d I’d had the letter and we are a charity was told I still had to submit the self assessment and why I was being sent an access code, but nothing would be due to pay 🤷‍♀️
 

edit: on the letter there is a ‘check-if-you-tax-return’ link but it starts off with we’re you self- employed, did you use that? Do they realize I don’t have time for this with everything there is to do right now without them threatening penalty fines 😡

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mouseketeer

[louby loo]

6 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

I’m going to do that too, when I phoned HMRC to ask why’d I’d had the letter and we are a charity was told I still had to submit the self assessment and why I was being sent an access code, but nothing would be due to pay 🤷‍♀️

Took me a little while to find it on the page/site, and I did follow a few wrong links. But when it did find it all I had to do was  input the ref number on the letter.  

[Mouseketeer]

1 minute ago, louby loo said:

Took me a little while to find it on the page/site, and I did follow a few wrong links. But when it did find it all I had to do was  input the ref number on the letter.  

I’ll try harder then 🤦‍♀️
 

I can see a link on the letter saying ‘if you calculate no payment is due’ ...well I haven’t calculated anything I just think we won’t  have to pay anything as a charity?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mouseketeer

[louby loo]

4 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

I’ll try harder then 🤦‍♀️

https://www.gov.uk/pay-corporation-tax/tell-hmrc-no-payment-due

7th on list, and  I haven't filled anything yet anyway!

[Mouseketeer]

3 minutes ago, louby loo said:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-corporation-tax/tell-hmrc-no-payment-due

7th on list, and  I haven't filled anything yet anyway!

It still says you have to file the return even if doing a nil to pay.

[louby loo]

Well I will do it very soon.... probably next week   xx

[Mouseketeer]

3 minutes ago, louby loo said:

Well I will do it very soon.... probably next week   xx

I’ll see you in jail 😝 I only have to 1st June, I’ll get on an HMRC chat tomorrow and plead to their better nature ...or not

[louby loo]

Mines due 30th May! 

[Dennie]

For those returning to work next week who have had staff on furlough, do you have many staff who do not feel it is safe enough for them to work in a bubble with children?  I have some members of staff who are shielding vulnerable people at home and don't want to work in the setting.  I don't think we will be able to furlough them for June as from this term we will only have our older fully funded children coming in.  None of the private fee-paying children will be returning yet as parents want to keep them at home.

 

[finleysmaid]

9 minutes ago, Dennie said:

For those returning to work next week who have had staff on furlough, do you have many staff who do not feel it is safe enough for them to work in a bubble with children?  I have some members of staff who are shielding vulnerable people at home and don't want to work in the setting.  I don't think we will be able to furlough them for June as from this term we will only have our older fully funded children coming in.  None of the private fee-paying children will be returning yet as parents want to keep them at home.

 

I am suspecting that we will not be able to claim for furlough at all ...keep finding rules that proclude us . Im afraid if you cannot find jobs for the staff to do at home (home learning for the children not in the setting/cleaning equipment etc) then you may have to make them redundant or offer them 'clipped' hours until things are 'back to normal' . It's getting tough out there

[anju]

15 minutes ago, Dennie said:

For those returning to work next week who have had staff on furlough, do you have many staff who do not feel it is safe enough for them to work in a bubble with children?  I have some members of staff who are shielding vulnerable people at home and don't want to work in the setting.  I don't think we will be able to furlough them for June as from this term we will only have our older fully funded children coming in.  None of the private fee-paying children will be returning yet as parents want to keep them at home.

 

That’s really difficult. I’ve got one who doesn’t feel it’s safe so she won’t be sending her own children back and isn’t happy to work. So far, I’ve managed to sort it so she doesn’t need to work as we have very few children coming back (mostly due to parents not wanting to send them). I don’t think I will be able to furlough anyone either in June. I will pay her basic contracted hours but not any overtime. Even this will be a struggle. I don’t want to make anyone redundant as it seems so unfair but also I hope I will need them again in September or soon after and it’s really difficult to get staff. There’s always a risk they may find some else in the meantime. Even supermarkets are better paid  

[finleysmaid]

And anyone who is term time will probably not be able to get furlough for over the summer as we would have NO private income. I have 2 staff who run our after school club, the information from the HMRC yesterday suggested that beacause they were also working for the pre-school i would not be able to furlough them for the after school job. It is a separate part of the business and could be operated by non pre-school staff but apparenly that doesn't matter!

[nomski100]

2 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

And anyone who is term time will probably not be able to get furlough for over the summer as we would have NO private income. I have 2 staff who run our after school club, the information from the HMRC yesterday suggested that beacause they were also working for the pre-school i would not be able to furlough them for the after school job. It is a separate part of the business and could be operated by non pre-school staff but apparenly that doesn't matter!

What was the information from HMRC yesterday😬I haven’t  seen it!!  We are not opening until September and was continuing to keep staff on furlough until end July( not August as term time nursery I wouldn’t normally have private paying  income then) 

Now I’m worried😬😬😬🤷🏼‍♀️

[Dennie]

Thank you for your thoughts Anju and Finleysmaid.  I have a further member of staff who doesn't want to work because it goes against her conscience (no one vulnerable at home) and she feels that as we are not involved in mandatory schooling we should not even be opening in spite of the latest advice/guidance.  However staff have been asked to do alternative work cleaning and preparing the activities or to work from home and some are saying they don't want to do that either.  We were going to ask them to keep in touch with non-returners via Zoom and do some online activities but they don't feel comfortable doing that.  I do not feel that those who are working every day with the children will feel supported by the rest of the team if everyone gets their basic wage but some are not working at all.

 

[finleysmaid]

Just now, nomski100 said:

What was the information from HMRC yesterday😬I haven’t  seen it!!  We are not opening until September and was continuing to keep staff on furlough until end July( not August as term time nursery I wouldn’t normally have private paying  income then) 

Now I’m worried😬😬😬🤷🏼‍♀️

sorry not trying to scare anyone...just finding brick walls at every turn. My admin did the webinar from HMRC . Basically (and i didn't do the 'course') it appeared that the staff as they were 'associated' with the business then they wouldn't be able to be furloughed for 'Part' of their job . 

[finleysmaid]

2 minutes ago, Dennie said:

Thank you for your thoughts Anju and Finleysmaid.  I have a further member of staff who doesn't want to work because it goes against her conscience (no one vulnerable at home) and she feels that as we are not involved in mandatory schooling we should not even be opening in spite of the latest advice/guidance.  However staff have been asked to do alternative work cleaning and preparing the activities or to work from home and some are saying they don't want to do that either.  We were going to ask them to keep in touch with non-returners via Zoom and do some online activities but they don't feel comfortable doing that.  I do not feel that those who are working every day with the children will feel supported by the rest of the team if everyone gets their basic wage but some are not working at all.

 

Humm not really in the spirit of things. I do think we are going to have to get tough...do you want all of these staff back ? maybe its time to put your foot down?! They really cannot stay at home do nothing and get paid ...are they furloughed? and do they understand that the furlough scheme will be limited soon and they will not get what they have been earning.

[anju]

2 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

Humm not really in the spirit of things. I do think we are going to have to get tough...do you want all of these staff back ? maybe its time to put your foot down?! They really cannot stay at home do nothing and get paid ...are they furloughed? and do they understand that the furlough scheme will be limited soon and they will not get what they have been earning.

Can’t see any justification for not doing work from home or cleaning when the setting is closed to children if they are still getting paid! And yes it would cause resentment I can imagine. 

[Dennie]

Just now, finleysmaid said:

Humm not really in the spirit of things. I do think we are going to have to get tough...do you want all of these staff back ? maybe its time to put your foot down?! They really cannot stay at home do nothing and get paid ...are they furloughed? and do they understand that the furlough scheme will be limited soon and they will not get what they have been earning.

Yes they are currently furloughed and I am already getting questions about part furlough going forwards and how it will affect them financially.  I really think some people think owners/managers are 'more in the know' whereas we usually only find things out late on a Friday night or a Sunday.  I thought you could only furlough if work wasn't available, which it clearly is.  It isn't in the 'spirit of things' and I can see other staff will be run ragged working with children and supporting those still at home.  Come September if anyone has to reduce their hours due to falling numbers this might well be really significant.

 

[finleysmaid]

there may well be staff looking for jobs in spetember...lots of little guys going out of business

[sunnyday]

2 hours ago, Dennie said:

Thank you for your thoughts Anju and Finleysmaid.  I have a further member of staff who doesn't want to work because it goes against her conscience (no one vulnerable at home) and she feels that as we are not involved in mandatory schooling we should not even be opening in spite of the latest advice/guidance.  However staff have been asked to do alternative work cleaning and preparing the activities or to work from home and some are saying they don't want to do that either.  We were going to ask them to keep in touch with non-returners via Zoom and do some online activities but they don't feel comfortable doing that.  I do not feel that those who are working every day with the children will feel supported by the rest of the team if everyone gets their basic wage but some are not working at all.

 

I agree with fm - time to get tough - I would offer her the option of unpaid leave

[anju]

33 minutes ago, sunnyday said:

I agree with fm - time to get tough - I would offer her the option of unpaid leave

I am thinking of going down that path if for example we take more children, in a few weeks’ time, and need all staff in. Or another thought I had was staff  ‘owing’ the hours and paying them back as overtime later in the year when (hopefully 🤞🏼) we are busier. Like annualised hours even though the contract doesn’t say that. Obviously a degree of trust would be required but it would maintain staff salary over the summer. I keep going round in circles with it to be honest. 

[Mouseketeer]

I’m still furloughing a couple of staff, we are still working on feb ‘private income’ to work out the % and still have a little in the furlough pot even though funding increased for summer term.....or have I missed something? 

[sunnyday]

28 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

I’m still furloughing a couple of staff, we are still working on feb ‘private income’ to work out the % and still have a little in the furlough pot even though funding increased for summer term.....or have I missed something? 

Goodness - I misread that as fab private income - I thought oh that's great that you have such a good private income......

I don't think (although I don't know) that you missed anything Mousie

Edited May 28, 2020 by sunnyday

[Mouseketeer]

Now something else has cropped up, do you think we are still ok to use feb fee loss to come up with our furlough % when we might now have some fee payers returning ? 

[anju]

44 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

Now something else has cropped up, do you think we are still ok to use feb fee loss to come up with our furlough % when we might now have some fee payers returning ? 

I think so - I’m sure the guidance said to always use Feb fee income but alter the funded income as necessary?

[lynned55]

Yes it did say that anju. However I have decided enough is enough re the furlough. I must be really stupid as I still cant work out what I'm doing. We are paid on 6th of each month (in lieu) So what we get paid on 6th June would be (normally) what was worked in May- well as from 1st June my staff are all coming off furlough. 

A long time ago I spoke to a tax advisor about something and mentioned the above (about salaries) and he sad HMRC dont care when you earnt it- the only care when you were paid it. So I tied myself in knots trying to work out if I could claim for June salaries- in the end decided against it. Also not sure how long to work funding over 3 months? April, May, June? or May, June, July? 

See, I think it's sending me slowly doolally!! That and the two members of staff that seem to think they should be staying home and doing nothing for a full salary. I dont really need all staff back but like someone else has said couldn't work out how to do it so as not to cause bad feeling. I really think- some people thought they were set up for a nice holiday until September on a full wage. Then got a shock when I contacted them. 

 

Mousie- and everyone else that is opening up on Monday, hope it goes well for you. Let us know how you get on. We only have staff in next week and are opening to children on 8th.