Retention of records/archiving

[Piskie]

Hi everyone,

I am currently sorting out our archived paperwork but there are some things I am unsure about.

I have a copy of the PLA retention period of records but it’s not really specific enough.

For example, how long do I need to keep registration documents for children that have left, do I need to keep county council funding forms, absence logs (in addition to the registers)?

I understand it is recommended to keep medication record books & accident record books and why but I can’t think of a reason to keep the paperwork above.

I would be grateful for any guidance.

Thank in advance.

[zigzag]

I agree about the PLSA ones being a bit unspecific!  I have gone for 7 years keeping registers and attendance records as our LA require us to keep funding forms  for 7 years.

[louby loo]

I think you need to contact your LA direct about funding forms - ours say 3 years. Our absence log is attached to register so would be kept for same times.

We have also started to categorise 'accidents' anything head related, or needed 'proper first aid' (if you know what I mean) is being kept - minor things like slight grazes etc not.

[playgroup1]

Just been told by LA that they "think" we have to keep funding forms for 21 years! 

[louby loo]

20 minutes ago, playgroup1 said:

Just been told by LA that they "think" we have to keep funding forms for 21 years! 

Move to ours!       I think if ours wanted them kept for 21 years I'd  be having a serious talk about the  3 x 4 pages per year!

[Panders]

42 minutes ago, louby loo said:

Move to ours!       I think if ours wanted them kept for 21 years I'd  be having a serious talk about the  3 x 4 pages per year!

ours say 7 years - quite long enough

[Mouseketeer]

Our agreement only says 3 yrs ..oh yes winner, winner ! 

[zigzag]

Ours is seven.

[NickyR]

6 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

Our agreement only says 3 yrs ..oh yes winner, winner ! 

Thanks Mouseketeer, I don't have to look this up now.

[Mouseketeer]

4 minutes ago, NickyR said:

Thanks Mouseketeer, I don't have to look this up now.

Lol I actually read the funding agreement 

[playgroup1]

The LA didn't sound like they had a clue when I spoke to them. Said they were in the process of working it all out and would be sending something out about GDPR "soon". Think I'll be going back to them - 21 years is ridiculous. I thought the whole purpose of GDPR was to cut down on how much data we hold unnecessarily. 

[louby loo]

6 minutes ago, playgroup1 said:

The LA didn't sound like they had a clue when I spoke to them. Said they were in the process of working it all out and would be sending something out about GDPR "soon". Think I'll be going back to them - 21 years is ridiculous. I thought the whole purpose of GDPR was to cut down on how much data we hold unnecessarily. 

Arghh there's your problem - you actually spoke to someone .    

We CANNOT phone ours!  We may get an occassional phone call from them- on a withheld number. The only contact we have is via email..........but on the plus side we do get it in writing that way.

[Stargrower]

Same, we're not allowed to phone our LA any more!

[Mouseketeer]

1 hour ago, Stargrower said:

Same, we're not allowed to phone our LA any more!

Really ! Maybe you could ask them to forward the slice of your funding they keep.

We don’t seem to have much of an advisor presence anymore but credit where it’s due our funding team are very helpful, we get payment when we should, emails are usually answered in minutes and always on the end of the phone if you have problems   

[Panders]

Yes I would agree that our funding team are the same.    I have e mailed some advisors in the evening, expecting them to pick up the e mail next working day - just wanted to get ahead of the game  and they have replied the same evening - and not just an out of hours type answer, actually answered my query!

Edited April 10, 2018 by Panders

[zigzag]

Our Funding team are fabulous.  Emails answered straight away and really helpful when spoken to on the phone.  👍

[FSFRebecca]

Yes, we are lucky in East Sussex too. The funding team are very helpful and I feel like they 'get' the situation that providers are in.

[finleysmaid]

ah i wish!... unfortunately our LEA seems to be in a right mess at the moment. Our funding officer 'retired' at Christmas. He was great ....he's now working part time and charging a fortune for 'consultancy' i suspect!!!! but when he's there it's all fine!

Unfortunately our services were taken over by 'achieving for children' last year.....nightmare since then!

[Panders]

Our advisors etc. for early years are also being "privatised" Fm.   I have no idea where that will take us.

[louby loo]

Our funding team are great - just no phone contact whatsoever unless they call us.

On the whole they're really good and questions answered in minutes (usually!) and payment pretty good - apart form the one time I tried to stop a payment !

 

[Mouseketeer]

Can you tell me who’s ‘record retention’ guidance you are using ...I’m reading conflicting timescales for some things and the one county flagged us to (connect childcare) doesn’t make sense eg. outing forms say child name/DOB 2 yrs but parent name/signature 21yrs well surely both are on the same permission form and child/parent details say 2yrs yet authorised collection details say 21yrs and I have those details on one form...maybe they just missed of the 1 where they’ve put 2 yrs? And now I’ve read other threads saying these forms only need keeping for 3yrs.....I thought i’d finished the audit but now questioning  myself over yrs and still can’t find the new PSLA on their site, I searched ‘record retention’ it asked me if I meant ‘records’...yeah that’ll do clicked  that and then it asked if I meant ‘recognise’ 😭 

[louby loo]

45 minutes ago, Mouseketeer said:

Can you tell me who’s ‘record retention’ guidance you are using ...I’m reading conflicting timescales for some things and the one county flagged us to (connect childcare) doesn’t make sense eg. outing forms say child name/DOB 2 yrs but parent name/signature 21yrs well surely both are on the same permission form and child/parent details say 2yrs yet authorised collection details say 21yrs and I have those details on one form...maybe they just missed of the 1 where they’ve put 2 yrs? And now I’ve read other threads saying these forms only need keeping for 3yrs.....I thought i’d finished the audit but now questioning  myself over yrs and still can’t find the new PSLA on their site, I searched ‘record retention’ it asked me if I meant ‘records’...yeah that’ll do clicked  that and then it asked if I meant ‘recognise’ 😭 

Ok, I'll admit it might have been the wine from last - night but reading that made my head hurt 

I've been reading a post on FB about how long people are keeping stuff and it kinda got ridiculous - I'm going with the reason why I'm keeping it- as stated by the CIO. Therefore anything accident (proper ones!) anything safeguarding related, insurance (I guess that's just to prove you had in insurance in the case of an historical clam in the future?...).  etc will be kept.  Other stuff in NOT being kept for 500 years. I shall make up my own retention records based to legal ones.

Bet that paragraph made your head hurt.... but I know what I mean 

[finleysmaid]

i would have said insurance would only be claims...there are other ways of checking that you had it...unless you change companies all the time i guess......i've just burnt most of that!

[louby loo]

56 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

i would have said insurance would only be claims...there are other ways of checking that you had it...unless you change companies all the time i guess......i've just burnt most of that!

True, I've actually thought that- the insurance company would have our records - so we could just say we were insured by xxxx form  xx-xx.

Mind you, they are only one sheet a year, so at the moment I can live with that. 

[sunnyday]

3 hours ago, Mouseketeer said:

Can you tell me who’s ‘record retention’ guidance you are using ...I’m reading conflicting timescales for some things and the one county flagged us to (connect childcare) doesn’t make sense eg. outing forms say child name/DOB 2 yrs but parent name/signature 21yrs well surely both are on the same permission form and child/parent details say 2yrs yet authorised collection details say 21yrs and I have those details on one form...maybe they just missed of the 1 where they’ve put 2 yrs? And now I’ve read other threads saying these forms only need keeping for 3yrs.....I thought i’d finished the audit but now questioning  myself over yrs and still can’t find the new PSLA on their site, I searched ‘record retention’ it asked me if I meant ‘records’...yeah that’ll do clicked  that and then it asked if I meant ‘recognise’ 😭 

Dear Mousie - I am following my 'record retention' guidance with a little bit from my LA  so seven years for most things, up until next inspection for things like transition records, accident forms 21 yrs........

[finleysmaid]

4 minutes ago, sunnyday said:

Dear Mousie - I am following my 'record retention' guidance with a little bit from my LA  so seven years for most things, up until next inspection for things like transition records, accident forms 21 yrs........

well i don't have transition records so don't need to keep those for us !!

[louby loo]

9 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

well i don't have transition records so don't need to keep those for us !!

Snap!  And I'm not going to start doing them now. The LA 'encourage' us to do them - our feeder schools say they don't want them unless SEND issues. They visit us and see the children before they start.

[Mouseketeer]

2 hours ago, finleysmaid said:

i would have said insurance would only be claims...there are other ways of checking that you had it...unless you change companies all the time i guess......i've just burnt most of that!

Thanks all, I think I must be reading the same thread Louby, it doesn’t pay to leave the safety of ‘home’, I got myself all unsure again, I have the same as you sunnyday, I’m going to go with 21yrs for enrolment forms as they seem to have some info that is needed that long and some that’s only 3yrs so it’s a catch 22 

That made me  fm, with your burnt the insurance stuff ...Is it only if a claim ? (Happy to burn though....oh hang on I put shred on the audit)  is it just certificates or the complete annual pack that lets be honest no one even takes out of the envelope and NO transition info  my county are quite pushy on that one.

[Rafa]

On 13 April 2018 at 14:14, Mouseketeer said:

Thanks all, I think I must be reading the same thread Louby, it doesn’t pay to leave the safety of ‘home’, I got myself all unsure again, I have the same as you sunnyday, I’m going to go with 21yrs for enrolment forms as they seem to have some info that is needed that long and some that’s only 3yrs so it’s a catch 22 

That made me  fm, with your burnt the insurance stuff ...Is it only if a claim ? (Happy to burn though....oh hang on I put shred on the audit)  is it just certificates or the complete annual pack that lets be honest no one even takes out of the envelope and NO transition info  my county are quite pushy on that one.

21yrs for enrolment forms???? 😩 They will have to bury them with me......or cremate them as per audit!!

[FSFRebecca]

In relation to the storage of data question, the PLA have been made aware of an ICO requirement from one of their members. I have been in touch with them today and they have asked that we get FSF member views. This is the press release that PLA have put out:

New data protection rules could result in additional costs for providers, Alliance warns

"Changes to data protection law could mean unexpected costs for early years providers, the Pre-school Learning Alliance is warning.

The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO), which is the body responsible for enforcing the new General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) set to be introduced in May this year, have confirmed to the Alliance that they will regard anyone either actively using or storing electronic data as a ‘data processor’ under GDPR. This means that childcare providers will be subject to ICO’s annual registration fee for as long as they do so.

The issue, first raised to the Pre-school Learning Alliance by Alliance member Sarah Neville of Knutsford Childminding, is that most insurance companies recommend that childcare providers store some data – such as accident logs and safeguarding notes – until a child turns 21 years and three months (and later, in some cases such as child protection, SEND records, health care plans and safeguarding documents).

This means that early years providers storing data electronically may have to continue to pay an annual ICO registration fee even after they have left the profession or retired.

Following ongoing representations from the Alliance, the ICO has confirmed that providers with securely stored, paper-based records, that are not intended to be uploaded to a computer, will not be subject to registration fees. A spokesperson for the ICO said guidance to assist organisations in securing the personal data they hold will be produced as the ICO works to update existing guidance to reflect new GDPR provisions.

Commenting, Melanie Pilcher, the Pre-school Learning Alliance’s quality and standards manager, said:

“It’s positive to have secured this confirmation from the ICO because we know that many childminders and smaller providers have been seeking clarity on this issue for months. That said, we’re clear that an exemption recognising the unique position childcare providers are in would have been a more effective response than the sticking plaster that this compromise represents. 

“There’s no doubt that the most secure and efficient way for providers to store data is electronically and so it’s disappointing that the ICO cannot ensure the GDPR makes a provision for that. The ICO’s compromise – to ensure that records are paper-based, securely-stored and not uploaded to a computer - may mean providers don’t have to pay a registration fee but could leave some storing reams upon reams of paper.”

Sarah Neville said:

“ICO tell us that if we retain information digitally we will have to continue paying them an annual fee until the youngest recorded child is 21 years and three months old (the retention period for certain information required by the Limitation Act 1980), by which time it is unlikely the digital media will still be accessible – and, as pointed out by many providers, they will have been retired for several years.

“However, if we retain information in paper format, we can stop paying when we retire or leave the profession. Good news? Certainly for those providers who have unlimited printer ink, don’t use digital systems and are happy to keep storage boxes full of paperwork in cupboards or lofts for years to come.

“However, please spare a thought for those providers who are using online systems, believing themselves to be ‘paperless’ and ‘eco-friendly’ and who will now be forced to spend hours printing – or, of course, continue paying ICO in perpetuity.”

It would be helpful to hear how this will affect you and your setting.