Funding question

[zigzag]

we are not offering the 30 hours, we are sticking to the 15 hour entitlement. One of my parents is entitled to claim 30 hours and is intending to share this between us and a childminder. A few months ago she asked me about this and I said that we would ask that she claims the 15 hour entitlement with us and the extra with the childminder. She has now contacted me and said that she is entitled to the 30 and wants to use the 30. I just wanted to check that I am in the right saying this?

[Panders]

that has always been my understanding, just like splitting the 15 hours between providers.

[LKeyteach]

Same as you Ziggy. I am not offering the plus 15 just the universal.

You are right you do not have to offer it. there is a recommendation that if you don't you team up and go into partnership with another provider who does. Not sure if you could contact the childminder yourself and ask if you can use her as your partner for this family.

I think the issue will be which one of you is claiming the universal because the plus 15 hours is conditional on parent remaining in work.

But essentially parent cannot demand that you give her all 30 hours with you.

[sunnyday]

Hi zigzag

 

I am only offering 15 too - however found out at the very end of term that I actually had to register as a provider of 30 hours,this because some of my children also attend childminder, I had (wrongly) assumed that as long as they claimed 'universal' hours with me and 'extended' hours with childminder I didn't need to worry.......

 

Not happy with this but no other option for me.......

 

However, a parent can't demand 30 hours from you or any other provider

[LKeyteach]

Hi zigzag

 

I am only offering 15 too - however found out at the very end of term that I actually had to register as a provider of 30 hours,this because some of my children also attend childminder, I had (wrongly) assumed that as long as they claimed 'universal' hours with me and 'extended' hours with childminder I didn't need to worry.......

 

Not happy with this but no other option for me.......

 

 

Oh I don't think I was aware. Better check my provider agreement.

[zigzag]

She is not expecting us to offer the 30 but wants to split it. I had assumed that I would not have to register fir 30 as we are not offering it. Think I will have to contact the funding team on this one.

[sunnyday]

Oh I don't think I was aware. Better check my provider agreement.

Well, no, nor was I - came as a bit of a 'shock'

[sunnyday]

She is not expecting us to offer the 30 but wants to split it. I had assumed that I would not have to register fir 30 as we are not offering it. Think I will have to contact the funding team on this one.

 

It will be interesting to see what you get told.......

[zigzag]

It will be interesting to see what you get told.......

This is the reply I have had from the funding team.

 

The new parent declaration form asks the parents to state where they want the universal (normal 15 hrs) and where they want the extended hours. It would be a good idea to get her to fill out one of these for you if she has not already. She will definitely need to fill out one for the childminder and make it very clear that she wants the extended hours there.

[sunnyday]

This is the reply I have had from the funding team.

 

The new parent declaration form asks the parents to state where they want the universal (normal 15 hrs) and where they want the extended hours. It would be a good idea to get her to fill out one of these for you if she has not already. She will definitely need to fill out one for the childminder and make it very clear that she wants the extended hours there.

 

Oh that's good - far more sensible than my LA then

[Mouseketeer]

Oh that's good - far more sensible than my LA then

Ours doesn't look like there's an option for this either, we have to share the hours equally and then split those hours equally between universal and extended, so doesn't seem like one setting can say they are only offering universal and the other has to claim all extended, I can see this getting messy when a child was already at a first provider who aren't intending to offer 30hrs and then joins another provider for the extra hours the parent wants :-/

Edited August 24, 2017 by Mouseketeer

[Mother_Goose]

Ours doesn't look like there's an option for this either, we have to share the hours equally and then split those hours equally between universal and extended, so doesn't seem like one setting can say they are only offering universal and the other has to claim all extended, I can see this getting messy when a child was already at a first provider who aren't intending to offer 30hrs and then joins another provider for the extra hours the parent wants :-/

 

That's just bonkers for both parents and providers. If a parent falls out of eligibility, they would then potentially have to split their universal across two settings, which may not be practical or feasible!

[finleysmaid]

Ours doesn't look like there's an option for this either, we have to share the hours equally and then split those hours equally between universal and extended, so doesn't seem like one setting can say they are only offering universal and the other has to claim all extended, I can see this getting messy when a child was already at a first provider who aren't intending to offer 30hrs and then joins another provider for the extra hours the parent wants :-/

This is Crazy! can't see it working at all...who came up with THAT as a plan!!!

[Mouseketeer]

"For children who are entitled to 30 hours, and ALSO ATTEND ANOTHER SETTING, you should enter half of the hours they are attending with you in each box.

(i.e. So a child attending 10 hours with you and 10 with another provider you enter 5 hours in the Universal Hours box and 5 hours in the Extended Hours box.)"

 

On this example I would have expected the setting who originally had the child to claim 10 universal and the other setting to claim 5 universal and 5 extended ...or maybe that's to logical ?

 

This was emailed yesterday, will be interesting to hear what the settings who are only offering 15hrs still think about it, they probably hadn't bothered with the eligibility codes for 30hrs and will now only have a few days to chase parents or the settings they thought would just claim for extended hours and get them checked :-(

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mouseketeer

[sunnyday]

"For children who are entitled to 30 hours, and ALSO ATTEND ANOTHER SETTING, you should enter half of the hours they are attending with you in each box.

(i.e. So a child attending 10 hours with you and 10 with another provider you enter 5 hours in the Universal Hours box and 5 hours in the Extended Hours box.)"

 

On this example I would have expected the setting who originally had the child to claim 10 universal and the other setting to claim 5 universal and 5 extended ...or maybe that's to logical ?

 

This was emailed yesterday, will be interesting to hear what the settings who are only offering 15hrs still think about it, they probably hadn't bothered with the eligibility codes for 30hrs and will now only have a few days to chase parents or the settings they thought would just claim for extended hours and get them checked :-(

Honestly you couldn't make this stuff up

[finleysmaid]

"For children who are entitled to 30 hours, and ALSO ATTEND ANOTHER SETTING, you should enter half of the hours they are attending with you in each box.

(i.e. So a child attending 10 hours with you and 10 with another provider you enter 5 hours in the Universal Hours box and 5 hours in the Extended Hours box.)"

 

On this example I would have expected the setting who originally had the child to claim 10 universal and the other setting to claim 5 universal and 5 extended ...or maybe that's to logical ?

 

This was emailed yesterday, will be interesting to hear what the settings who are only offering 15hrs still think about it, they probably hadn't bothered with the eligibility codes for 30hrs and will now only have a few days to chase parents or the settings they thought would just claim for extended hours and get them checked :-(

humm

I guess it spreads the risk...or maybe it doubles it (as twice as many settings will have an issue when parents loose jobs!)

La can say it has lots of settings who offer 30 hours of course.(oh dear the cynic in me is appearing again)

[Mother_Goose]

Just thinking about this, the only reason I can come up with for splitting universal and extended hours between each setting, is to ensure that both get any EYPP payments which may be due, as these are only paid on universal hours? Otherwise, it just makes no sense!

[Mouseketeer]

Good point mother-goose, though wouldn't the benefits parents are on to qualify for eypp mean they wouldn't qualify for 30hrs funding....I could be wrong as the benefits thing really confuses me .

[Mother_Goose]

Good point mother-goose, though wouldn't the benefits parents are on to qualify for eypp mean they wouldn't qualify for 30hrs funding....I could be wrong as the benefits thing really confuses me .

 

I honestly don't know either Mouseketeer. I'm only going by what we've been told by our LEA (that EYPP is only payable on the first 15 hours) which makes me assume that you could get it even if you qualified for the 30 hours. I'll try to find the reference if can!

 

Edit: knew I'd find the reference eventually! Page 3 of this doc at the top in bold:

 

EYPP is only paid on Universal hours

 

https://ccc-live.storage.googleapis.com/upload/www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/residents/working-together-children-families-and-adults/Autumn%202017%20Bulletin%20v2.pdf?inline=true

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mother_Goose

[finleysmaid]

Eypp is only paid to families with income below 16k therefore they are not entitled to 30 hours

[sunnyday]

Eypp is only paid to families with income below 16k therefore they are not entitled to 30 hours

Good point there fm :1b

 

This is all so ill thought out and everyone including the powers that be at our Local Authorities have just not received enough info which means that they can't pass on to us lowly bods

[Mother_Goose]

Eypp is only paid to families with income below 16k therefore they are not entitled to 30 hours

 

But you qualify for 30 hours if you work 16 hrs at NMW. That's only £6,250 ish. Two parents working at 16 hours, would have income of less than £16k, so couldn't they qualify for both (EYPP+30hrs)? Or have I missed another factor? It's been a long week and I've had a wine already so it's entirely possible!

 

Also, EYPP is paid to children who have been adopted. Couldn't adopted parents qualify for both as well? Again, I might be missing something blinding obvious!

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mother_Goose

[finleysmaid]

 

But you qualify for 30 hours if you work 16 hrs at NMW. That's only £6,250 ish. Two parents working at 16 hours, would have income of less than £16k, so couldn't they qualify for both (EYPP+30hrs)? Or have I missed another factor? It's been a long week and I've had a wine already so it's entirely possible!

 

Also, EYPP is paid to children who have been adopted. Couldn't adopted parents qualify for both as well? Again, I might be missing something blinding obvious!

no I think you might well be right...has a feeling you couldn't get both but i'll go and check again!

[lsp]

It's a real minefield. Every question just leads to more holes and problems with the process. Only 5 days to start date for the majority of us.

 

Any positive news from anyone who has taken part in the pilot schemes???????

[finleysmaid]

 

But you qualify for 30 hours if you work 16 hrs at NMW. That's only £6,250 ish. Two parents working at 16 hours, would have income of less than £16k, so couldn't they qualify for both (EYPP+30hrs)? Or have I missed another factor? It's been a long week and I've had a wine already so it's entirely possible!

 

Also, EYPP is paid to children who have been adopted. Couldn't adopted parents qualify for both as well? Again, I might be missing something blinding obvious!

you are quite right mother goose...so confused at the moment about what is what! I am rapidly having to become an expert on benefits!!!

I am assuming EYPP is only paid for the first 15 hours though? anyone confirm this????

[Mouseketeer]

It's a real minefield. Every question just leads to more holes and problems with the process. Only 5 days to start date for the majority of us.

Any positive news from anyone who has taken part in the pilot schemes???????

We've done a term of this already so clearly I haven't beeen paying attention lol though we didn't have anyone on both, our funding portal has options for 2yr funded, 15hrs non-eypp, 15hrs including eypp or 30hrs, so I wouldn't know where to claim for a child on eypp and 30hrs .... best go back and read the agreement again I think :-/

 

Update: I can't find anything referencing this on the agreement, but have gone into an eypp claim and the universal hours and extended have to be entered in separate boxes ....so it does look eypp rate only on universal hours.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Mouseketeer

[Foreveryoung]

 

I am assuming EYPP is only paid for the first 15 hours though? anyone confirm this????

 

Yes that is correct, our LA have made a suggestion that if a child is splitting funding over different settings the one who receives the EYPP could be responsible for arranging and leading any multi agency meetings, it was just an idea they threw into the mix.

[Mouseketeer]

That would make sense I guess if the person getting the eypp could put some of it against the time it takes someone to do that but the way ours is set up we would each claim half of the universal with eypp funding ....so we may need to flip a coin to see who would organise meetings or complete an EHCP request.

[ladybirds1991]

EYPP is only claimable on the first 15 hours (universal) as you have to be on certain benefits to be eligible for it, the extended hours (the additional 15 on top) is only for parents who are working so therefore would not be eligible for EYPP and regarding the funding, from what i took from our latest training session, it is the parents choice which provider gets the Universal funding and which the extended if you are offering this, obviously if you are then they can decide which setting gets both the Universal and Extended and any leftover hours can go elsewhere, for example another setting or childminder. It is all down to parent choice now and what they write on the parent declaration form.

[finleysmaid]

EYPP is only claimable on the first 15 hours (universal) as you have to be on certain benefits to be eligible for it, the extended hours (the additional 15 on top) is only for parents who are working so therefore would not be eligible for EYPP and regarding the funding, from what i took from our latest training session,

yes I agree eypp only available for the universal entitlement BUT if the parents were getting working family tax credits and their joint income was below 16k would they still not be entitled to get EYPP??