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Rea
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Bear with me, I should know this, I dont even want to phone ofsted because they'll think I've just landed!

 

Our registration certificate used to say 26 children aged 2 to 5. Now it says nothing except we must work to the Foundation Stage thingys (!)

 

I have a vague memory of it changing but I cant recall and I need to know because our manager has told 27 children they can attend on a session :huh:

 

Did it change to numbers based on ratios rather than room space or something? :unsure:

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Nope they now leave it to the registered person(s) to sort.. although you do still need to be within the limits of course.

 

The reason:

 

So Ofsted don't take any responsibility if you are out of numbers one day and something bad was to happen. It is all on you. BUT if you out of ratios, or space requirement's when Ofsted visit, of course they will not be happy :(

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So Rea - as Broadoaks has said - up to you to decide but working within the Statutory Framework requirements re floor space and adult:child ratios......

 

I quite like this change allows a bit of flexibility especially come the summer when we don't have so many under threes to think about :1b

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I have to say I much prefer it. For us it now means we are able to offer those 'one off mini-emergencies' when a parent is desperate for an odd day.

I used to hate it when you had to say no ......... however deep-down you knew that 99.9% of the time at least one child wouldn't turn up the following morning but you just didn't want to chance it!

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A confirmation here as well! We now no longer have limits of children, but must limit ourselves based on the environment - so you need to measure up and see how many children you could have following EYFS guidelines.


EG: In my nursery we have 121.25 m2 useable play space for the children. This would mean I could take '52' 3 and 4 year olds (2.3m2 each) or '48' 2 year olds (2.5m2 each.) We have mixed ages in the room so I would consider that an average of 50 children. HOWEVER, as this is one large space I actually only ever aim to have 30 children, but know that, as summer comes nearer and our numbers grow before the September school leavers head off, if I go over 30 I am not contravening EYFS requirements.


Hope that has helped!


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As JJA has put so well. There is still a total number you are allowed in your setting but you need to work it out based on the size of your setting. I still have a floor plan (as our building is quite new) but I still need my husband to do the maths for me!

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Thank you, I knew there had been a change but you know when you just have a feeling rather than any solid evidence.

 

I wont be doing any maths :blink: though, we used to be allowed 30 children so I'll allow up to that.

 

Brilliant ::1a ::1a

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I'm happy, Manager is happy but said one of the staff isnt, so I looked at our last years Ofsted report and it says Total number of children 26.

 

Do we have to tell them if we decide to change the higher limit? :ph34r:

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I don't think so FM as long as you have staff and allowed space, sure they also did away with the 1 toilet to 10 children to ....ours space works out we could have 39 x 2 yr olds ...forget that ! I think I need some more furniture to take up the space lol

space not so much of an issue...we have enough for 60 apparently! just choose not to go that high (I wonder why???? :rolleyes: :wacko: )

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Hi

So with all the talk about space how do you actually calculate it. ie you measure the room but then do you have to take out the fact there is a cupboard on that side, there may be 2 tables? The number of toilets has also changed. We maybe moving so will need to be measuring up!

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I questioned all of this when buying my nursery, tried to talk to as many people as i could, this included phoning ofsted on multiple occasions, talking to a friend who used to be an inspector, talking to the early years team from the LA and also speaking with the inspector who did my registration visit. From what i could gather, they have done away with the toilet ratio but roughly 1:10 is a good guide, although not a deal breaker if you are slightly over. Amount of children definitely goes on space available but things like tables do not take away from the space. If you have units (like kitchen ones) across one side of the room then this would take away from your space. So basically, things that are fixed in will take away but things that are movable won't as you can rearrange these day to day according to needs. Obviously if you barely have room to move for all the furniture it wouldn't be good.

I think the old way of registering for a certain amount was down to the days when LA's registered you, which also went on the site of the setting as well as space, e.g. a busy area or where locals had listed concerns about a nursery opening, they may have given a smaller allowance so that there would potentially be less traffic from parents blocking up the road. My nursery does not have it's own parking so parents park on the street and so do staff which can be annoying to some people. ours was originally registered for 25 by the LA but we actually have space for 33.

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Regarding furniture, Pebbles is right about 'fixed' furniture being taken out of the measurements (such as our sink unit fixed all along one wall) but other furniture, if it's used by the children for their everyday care and learning, doesn't have to be measured and subtracted from your area. So, our tables and chairs are fine (both moveable and used by the children), our storage cupboards for bedding etc are against the walls and subtracted from the overall area (moveable (just!) but NOT used by the children), our toy storage units (those lovely wooden Ikea ones with clear baskets) are used freely by the children to choose their own activities and toys from, so these are not taken out of our area. Hope that's cleared some things up!

As for toilets, there are no specific guidelines anymore, it comes under 'Safety and suitability of premises' and leaves it up to you to decide what is 'adequate':

 

3.60. Providers must ensure there is an adequate number of toilets and hand basins available. Except in childminding settings, there should usually be separate toilet facilities for adults. Providers must ensure there are suitable hygienic changing facilities for changing any children who are in nappies and providers should ensure that an adequate supply of clean bedding, towels, spare clothes and any other necessary items is always available.

 

We have 3 toilets, small size, specifically for the 2-5 years olds, plus I have a disabled loo (adult size but with flip down child seat and step) and another loo in our babyroom which could be used if needed and I have 30-35 2-5yr olds in each day. I consider this to be 'adequate'...

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  • 3 weeks later...

If you have enough room for 30 children in line with Stat Req.. and one day you decide to take 31 as a "one off" and something bad happens... guess what will happen?

 

Ofsted will investigate.. check registers for the day of incident.. and check space themselves no doubt.

 

Now rather than anybody other than the Registered person who allowed this to happen.. will be able to claim no responsibility for said incident.

 

So you have a few choices.. don't allow more than 30 children, hope that you only have 30 children on the day, or don't include extra child in register :P - but i wouldn't advise the last 2!

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