thumperrabbit Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 In the dim & distant past we have used a CRB cleared committee member to cover a sudden staff illness - this was pre-eyfs though So my question is, can you still do this these days? Due to such a young age group now The comm member would be needed due to a need for ratio cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel10 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ofsted checks for committee member aren't valid for staff recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 To my knowledge as long as your qualified ratios are right then yes you can still do this (I am assuming you mean for a one of emergency type thing!) ....we have done this in the past if desperate (and actually most of my trustees are teachers) . I agree that the DBS is not for 'use' with the children but unless they are volunteering regularly then this should not be an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 To my knowledge as long as your qualified ratios are right then yes you can still do this (I am assuming you mean for a one of emergency type thing!) ....we have done this in the past if desperate (and actually most of my trustees are teachers) . I agree that the DBS is not for 'use' with the children but unless they are volunteering regularly then this should not be an issueYes it would be in an emergency and would most likely leave us in a 50% qual & 50% not qual senario - I can't get a clear answer on this from county!It feels like nobody is prepared to advise these days as it all depends on the inspector on the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveryoung Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 No you can not use them, I looked into this not long ago. The reason being not the fact they hold a DBS or CRB but that on their EY2 form they would have ticked that they do not work in direct contact with the children. Until a new EY2 has been successfully submitted and recieved back you can not have them even volunteering as the EY2 does not declare that this would be the case. My board member couldn't be bothered with hassle so decided against it grrrrrrr x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 well im confused...you can use a parent to cover if you need to so why not a trustee???? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveryoung Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 A parent is not a person who is in charge of the running of the setting a committee member is, so as they have a position of authority they are registered through the EY2 route, if things change you must re submit a new EY2 as volunteering to work directly with the children means the current EY2 is not relevant as the previous one would have no direct contact ticked. You are responsible for the parent for example in ensuring their suitability and safeguarding process to volunteer with children and the buck stops with you, but the committee member is not responsible to you if they are not a paid staff member as they are above us managers in the order picking and therefore Ofsted are to be aware of this change and that they are working with children so they can say they have said its ok and they are aware. They was very clear about it when I looked into it and an EY2 is a ball ache to start with let alone doing it again it might only be a form but it's a bloody pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 ok still confused....I am responsible for the safety of all children in my care. We are able to use volunteers to cover (they do not need to be dbs'd unless they volunteer regularly ) No volunteers are able to have access to children unsupervised. I am NOT suggesting using their dbs ...I am suggesting that as a parent they can come in and help under my supervision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveryoung Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yes agree completely but they are responsible to you and you will be in deep poop if it goes wrong not Ofsted so you have to ensure their suitability for instance if not DBS you still risk assess their intentions, character etc, where as committee members are your 'boss' so in chain order you can only be responsible to a degree for them Ofsted are their 'boss' so in chain order they must know and be responsible for ensuring that they have carried out their suitability checks. That is my take on it any way from how they explained it all to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Oh my it's a nightmare isn't it We are lucky to be 1 over ratio but if someone was off on hol & another staff member became ill we are stuffed! Unless Foreveryoung you are saying we could use a non committee parent? But then they wouldn't have had any checks at all!! I still wouldn't let my DBS comm member do toilet runs or be on their own anyway It seems like we would have to close then? There's no agency staff in our rural area how do other committee run groups deal with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I agree Finleysmaid it seems daft. Do committee members have an enhanced clearance? I have had to use them in emergency and assumed, obviously wrongly, that it was safer to use cleared committee member than uncleared parent who I would have to continually monitor (would of course monitor all temporary / emergency cover). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Humm well as I am the nominated person although I am employed by the trustees whist in the setting they are under my supervision.just as anyone would be. I had two members of staff off today...if I had had 1 more child in I would have had to revert to parent helper...most likely they would have been a commit member 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Well I'm also totally confused and have also used them if no other option, even though they have an enhanced disclosure they wouldn;t be allowed to deal with children un supervised, I'm not sure I see what difference the EY2 makes, it isn't like staff even do them :-/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveryoung Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's just the answer I was given!, seams daft but hey ho doesn't most things from them. Another advisor would probably give another answer as that happens just as often. I have phoned for 5 years getting list of committee members then phoned this year and got told they couldn't tell me that information! Erm you have done twice per year for 5 years doh !!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Well that's ridiculous Foreveryoung. I phoned them the other day and went through my list whilst on the telephone. Although they had been notified of changes they still had historic names on their records. Have to say he was a very pleasant chap and was able to answer my query. I don't have a EY2 in front of me but I thought it includes contact with children on the form for committee/trustees. I have the joy of completing three more in the coming days, I can't wait. Edited December 4, 2015 by Fredbear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 I agree Finleysmaid it seems daft. Do committee members have an enhanced clearance? I have had to use them in emergency and assumed, obviously wrongly, that it was safer to use cleared committee member than uncleared parent who I would have to continually monitor (would of course monitor all temporary / emergency cover).My CRB is from when I was Secretary on the committee and Yes it's an Enhanced clearance plus it's absolutely fine (by the last 3 inspectors) for me to be Manager & Nominated person with it!!Judging by all these replies I now know why my advisor can't give me an answer!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Oh my God this whole DBS and EY2 is a complete nightmare. The DBS and update is straight forward but the EY2 is a pain in the neck. It can't be submitted until you have your DBS number but because we notified Ofsted by EY3 first without completing the EY2 we have been given 14 days to complete everything or we will have to restart new DBS checks and pay again!! DBS checks are currently taking longer than this from start to finish. I got really frustrated with a man on the helpline the other day about this as he could just not see my point of view. I just do not understand why they would make us restart the whole process again when the DBS are either brand new or not even fully completed. Have had messages left on my home phone and the settings phone this week from them, but just ignoring as we are so close to being completed. Ahhh, no wonder I have lots of new grey hairs!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 I haven't done any EY3's yet on my 3 new comm members as only 1 has had their DBS & Ofsted clearance so far and this is going back to September - I actually daren't do it as ZigZag has found out I knew they'd be on my back! This is an absolutely ridiculous system that needs looking at with urgency, in my humble opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Oh thank goodness it's not just me that feels like this. My administrator filled the EY3 in without realising EY2 was not paper based any more. Now I know the correct order I will never make that mistake again!! Have to say the man on the phone was so awful I was nearly in tears with pure frustration. As I say I am trying to ignore there phone calls until it is sorted which must only be a couple of days away(hopefully) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 So if you were me tomorrow I have ratios that are bang on can't have another child in - now unusually I have 2 staff off sick so don't have the 'extra staff member' that we always have especially with our huge age range of 25mths between eldest & youngest. What would you do, get a DBS cleared committee member or a non-cleared mum?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 tricky but given the choice I would go for the DBS cleared committee member but ensure they are never on their own with the children just to make sure you cover yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I agree with Carol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) me to ... I'd go with the checked committee member,( who are all parents anyway in my setting), rather than an un-checked parent who could come in at anytime anyway ...which to be honest is why I never get why all members (if parents) need checking and why we can't just check the officers, having a treasurer already convicted of fraud probably isn't a good move ;-p Edited December 6, 2015 by Mouseketeer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 committee members will also be on update service now....so you could check them on the morning they are working....I reckon ofsted would see this as you being pro-active wouldn't they?(well if they have ANY sense! :huh: ) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 [quote name="finleysmaid" ?(well if they have ANY sense! :huh: ) That made me laugh! I only have 1 DBS cleared comm member anyway the other 2 are still 'in process' since Sept and according to Ofsted that's normal?! The one cleared member I have took approx 2.5months - ridiculous system I agree with you Mouseketeer the officers of the committee are the only ones who get know anything any other members for me are purely fundraising, I don't need DBS to be on my children's PTA at school so why should they need one in a playgroup?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'm still pondering over this! What happens if our DBS committee cleared person decided she wanted to just 'stay & play' (as we offer ALL parents) would Ofsted frown on this then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Lordy, this is a nightmare, we've always used committee (who are also parents) to cover if there was unexpected absence and actually our Treasurer regularly volunteers at the pre-school, and is no longer a parent, I thought it would be OK as she was DBS checked at the end of last year, but she would have put that she was committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Lordy, this is a nightmare, we've always used committee (who are also parents) to cover if there was unexpected absence and actually our Treasurer regularly volunteers at the pre-school, and is no longer a parent, I thought it would be OK as she was DBS checked at the end of last year, but she would have put that she was committee. From what I was told if the committee member would have been used IN RATIO then no they can't do it Total and utter madness, when you know what schools get away with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 From what I was told if the committee member would have been used IN RATIO then no they can't do it Total and utter madness, when you know what schools get away with Mind you, our Treasurer when she volunteers isn't actually counted in the ratio, she's just an extra pair of hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Mind you, our Treasurer when she volunteers isn't actually counted in the ratio, she's just an extra pair of hands. Then if she's not 'in-ratio' and is just a volunteer, isn't being paid but has a DBS then I think that's ok - but don't quote me!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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