To ban or not to ban jam and chocolate spread

[lashes2508]

Ok here goes, our setting encourages healthy eating and packed lunch , we are finding a couple of children who continually have chocolate spread or jam as their sandwich option.

 

I personally don't agree this is a savoury

Am I too old fashioned ?

Yes one of the serial offenders does not have the best of eating habits - mum struggles with her eating , have advised and supported ideas to encourage .

 

These children do eat fruit and other savoury options at snack when at preschool

 

Is jam and choc spread a treat ?

 

Thinking of putting a ban on these fillings

Am I asking for trouble - yes but also feel we should stay true to our ethos

 

Is there evidence that these items are not healthy

 

Waiting now for those for and against comments from you guys so we can make an informed decision

[Panders]

I dont disagree Lashes, just some parents are happy that their child will eat something, when they refuse so much, maybe their taste buds have not matured enough, or they just don't want to try fruit. Last week we read Handa's surprise for the first time in a long time actually and we had all the fruits out for the children to try - only two children tried all the fruits, some just tried ones they knew, or knew they liked, our twins - the girl tried everything, her brother only what he knew he liked.

 

Maybe trying yourself at snack time with different sandwich fillings the children could decide what fillings and then they could be made into tiny bites - little triangles etc. to try for all children, have a tick sheet with child's name on it, make a real fuss of those who try with stickers etc. and then you could report back to the mums what else their children were eating rather than just jam or chocolate spread.

 

Having run lunch clubs for some 12 years I have seen a massive change in what the children bring in their lunch boxes, some amaze me with how healthy they are, but truly most are healthy enough.

[thumperrabbit]

For me they are cake fillings, not sandwich fillings!

Have to give it some thought though about to ban or not to ban though

[lashes2508]

On the whole our children are good as we do emphasis a healthy lunch and will put notes in if no fruit etc , we know that this particular child runs rings round mum and mum does anything they want , seeing this more so in the younger sibling who has just joined us .

The older one eats so much more at preschool and tries new foods , we say if children don't want a sandwich just put in crackers, wraps , or just cucumber , carrots or other savoury items .

 

I agree they are cake fillings or a tea time treat , as a child Sunday tea was jam on toast and a glass of milk after having a substantial dinner. We never force children but actively encourage and reward for trying new foods .

 

I fee l it gives children a mixed message as we ask for them to have a savoury , yoghurt, fruit and treat , biscuit or cake for last but if they are having sweet treat first then it's a win for them.

[Susan]

You want this child to eat something though?

I would have been very cross if this had been dictated to me when my child was small as it was the only thing he would eat when he was little and out of the home. Also I knew it was not going to deteriorate by not being refrigerated or stored in a cold place.

[anne1]

Hi

Yes I have to agree with Susan. My grandson eats very little so I always pack what I know he will eat. normally cheddars, scotch egg, yogurt, nutrigrian bar and a smoothie. I don't pack biscuits or cake as I know this would be the only thing he would eat. It's not healthy but at least he is eating.

At the end of the day I and his mum would rather he ate something than nothing at all.

Banning simply because we don't approve is it really meeting every child's needs?

[Foreveryoung]

I like the idea of banning it but in reality would it work! What's your main feeder school/a policy do they not allow such products? I try to get our parents providing as healthy food as possible but with an ever increasing amount of families accessing our local food bank fresh isn't much of a option in being readily available. I did see a post other day about one place who offer sandwiches etc at a much reduced cost which has got me thinking but I know how excited the children are bringing in their lunch bags it's like the most proudest moment bless em x it's so hard to get the balance right each setting is so unique as are it's families good luck x

[Foreveryoung]

I like the idea of banning it but in reality would it work! What's your main feeder school/s policy do they not allow such products? I try to get our parents providing as healthy food as possible but with an ever increasing amount of families accessing our local food bank fresh isn't much of a option in being readily available. I did see a post other day about one place who offer sandwiches etc at a much reduced cost which has got me thinking but I know how excited the children are bringing in their lunch bags it's like the most proudest moment bless em x it's so hard to get the balance right each setting is so unique as are it's families good luck x

[Cait]

It's really hard. My son would only eat Marmite and had it every day, even when the health visitor told me he shouldn't because of the sodium content. He was a really poor eater and wouldn't eat cereals or any of those things that bring in the vitamins that marmite does. We made sure he drank plenty. He wouldn't eat fruit. The only other thing he would eat was salt and vinegar crisps, so we avoided those mostly. Once we got him eating chicken it made things simpler.

 

I have great sympathy with Mums who struggle to get their child to eat, I'm sure many know that chocolate spread or jam isn't ideal, in fact I've had conversations with several parents on this subject over the years, and they say 'oh I know, but I want him to have SOMETHING'. We can only work together and introduce new foods slowly.

 

Of course, when I was a child, it was 'eat it or go hungry' in our large family. My sister had the same meal presented to her until she ate it, warmed up for breakfast, lunch, and dinner the following day, on several occasions. I used to pinch food off her plate whilst mum wasn't watching! She was an incredibly picky eater, and had cornflakes with no milk for her Christmas dinner one year, when she was asked what she WOULD eat. She learned that she just had to get on with it.

[lashes2508]

Hi

Yes I have to agree with Susan. My grandson eats very little so I always pack what I know he will eat. normally cheddars, scotch egg, yogurt, nutrigrian bar and a smoothie. I don't pack biscuits or cake as I know this would be the only thing he would eat. It's not healthy but at least he is eating.

At the end of the day I and his mum would rather he ate something than nothing at all.

Banning simply because we don't approve is it really meeting every child's needs?

Anne - I think what your grandson has is perfectly acceptable and a healthy packed lunch , the children in question will eat other thinga as they do at our snack times that we provide .

[lashes2508]

Jut for the record I was the youngest of 10 , I too was a fussy eater and loved frozen peas still frozen ! I never ate roast dinners but loved smoked haddock !

 

This particular child has tried new foods and mum with our support has tried other foods , she refused to eat anything hot !

I encouraged mum to get her daughter to help prepare food and get involved , it's more a battle of wills , I want mum gives , the younger sibling has choc spread too but does not eat it , when suggested to mum to try something else , mum replied oh she eats chicken and ham and cheese .

[lashes2508]

You want this child to eat something though?

I would have been very cross if this had been dictated to me when my child was small as it was the only thing he would eat when he was little and out of the home. Also I knew it was not going to deteriorate by not being refrigerated or stored in a cold place.[/quote

 

 

This child does eat yogurts , fruit and cheese amongst other things that she has gradually tried at snack time

[lashes2508]

Clever marketing has attempted to convince consumers that chocolate-hazelnut spreads make a nutritious breakfast. Can this chocolaty delight be a healthy part of any meal?

 

Yes?

Manufacturers tout that this creamy spread contains wholesome ingredients like hazelnuts and skim milk — and it does. There’s actually not much else to it, only a couple of other ingredients make up the recipe — but that’s where things start to get messy.

 

No?

The first 2 ingredients listed on the label of chocolate-hazelnut spreads are sugar, followed by palm oil, which means these ingredients out-weigh all others. When you break down the numbers you’ll find it contains 100 calories per tablespoon and more than 50-percent of that comes from fat. While there are some heart-healthy fats from nuts, one-third is the artery-clogging saturated kind. As for the sugar, it’s not looking much better – nearly 5 teaspoons per serving!

[Panders]

Lashes, for this particular child, if you feel that having a sweet sandwich filling is allowing him to "win", maybe a compromise would be to eat his lunch in reverse order, don't make a fuss over it but sit with him and oversee what happens, if another child picks up on it simply say he is eating his healthier options first you did say he likes yoghurts, fruit and cheese, he could have his sarnie as his dessert

Edited February 10, 2015 by Panders

[narnia]

When you actually break down the 'nutritious content' of some of the foods mentioned in this thread..........yogurt (great?? How much sugar??how much fat??) cheddars(Great?? how much sugar, how much fat?) Scotch egg?? again, fat/sugar content..........many of the so-called healthy options contain copious amounts of sugar, yes, even the lovely nutritious fruit bars..............look for the words ending in -ose ( glucose, fructose, lactose), not to mention honey etc. There are lots of leaflets available to give to parents, with advice on healthier packed lunches, but in the end,I don't believe for one minute that you can 'ban' certain food................do ypu allow the child who comes in with a jam sandwich and nothing else, to go without lunch so you can stick to your principles.........no. Do you allow the child who has brought in loads of 'healthy things' to eat ALL of them?........... In my day, like Cait's, it was eat it or go without ( I can STILL, to this day smell the tripe and onions my parents used to love, but which made me physically sick)...........now, we have so much choice, rather too much I think. Hard, but I don't think you can ban, but you CAN advise.

[Fredbear]

I have given this some time and thought before replying to your post. My answer is "no" I would not ban these items.

I have long believed that we dictate too much in our partnership with parents/carers and in fact in society in general. Almost to the point when some are unable to think for themselves.

Giving them the opportunity to see posters, leaflets in your setting to promote a healthy lifestyle is great and may help to make informed decisions, however I am uncomfortable in demanding it.

Exploring different foods with children in your setting might also help them expand their choices and preferences in time.

By the way I love frozen peas to this day, strange hey.

[anne1]

yes agree. I don't see my grandsons lunch as healthy, but its what he eats, far too much sugar and too much fat.

And yes Marillion I too was given what I was given or I went without. It didn't make me a better eater just a hungry child!

A jam or chocolate spread sandwich probably isn't as bad as it sounds if eaten with other foods and I wouldn't ban it. I would continue to offer choices at snack times and tell mum about what he did have.

do you remember this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series7/jam_sandwich_diet.shtml

[finleysmaid]

due to nut allergies we've been able to ban chocolate spread this term...so the answers simple get yourself a nut allergic child!

don't know what you do about the jam though!! :blink:

[Inge]

we had a ban on nuts all the time... saved us having to introduce it if we had a child with an allergy, it was part of our standard food policy.

 

No you cannot ban foods given by parents,it is their choice,you can suggest and offer advice as much as you like but in the end the parents have the last decision over their child.

 

you could perhaps do a comparison of children's lunch boxes and maybe highlight how much sugar is in some of the foods...a picture of the product with pictures of cubed sugar next to it... get the children involved..

but also remember to look at the sugar in natural foods, fruit often contains as much as your spreads..

depending on variety it may vary but these are approximate values for 100g

banana - 12g of sugar depending on the ripeness.. riper banana has more sugar.

apple - 10g of sugar ,

grapes - 16 g of sugar

Clementine - 9g of sugar

none of them low in sugar , but because it s classed as natural and not processed it is not often looked at in the same way.

I do feel children of this age need the foods that give energy and if that is in the way of these spreads then that is parental choice. All settings can do is educate and provide the balance against the foods parents provide..

at least they are making them, I once has a child who came in with pre packed foods completely in his lunch box, that consisted of a brioche roll filled with jam this was shop bought in a sealed packet, the rest of the box contained similar products, nothing fresh, unprocessed or low in anything , high sugar, fat and carbohydrates..well may be low in natural foods .

So we had a make your lunch at preschool day once a week, parents donated ingredients by us asking for items and they brought them in each week.. things like brad, ham cheese, fruits were on a list for them to say they would bring in. We always had bread in so it we ran out we had plenty, and I always had a suitable filling in the setting on that day in case someone forgot. Worked well for us but dos depend on the staff numbers to help children make a lunch up .

[Rea]

I saw a headline earlier this week about how Nurseries are taking over parental choice and dictating how they bring up their family, I cant find where I read it, but its so true and something thats has bugged me for years.

Its ok to offer advice but to ban things we dont like is a step too far in my not so humble opinion. I dont care that Ofsted our own LAs and everyone on TV wants us to make children eat healthily, they're not the ones suffering the tantrums, the not eating and the worry that all causes to a family.

My youngest is 22, he still wont eat vegetables or fruits, after years of cajoling, bribing and ranting I gave up so we could have happy, chatty mealtimes. His lunchbox reflected the fact that I was happy for him to eat ANYTHING!

He got fat as an 8-14 year old, he saw his weight at around that age and cut out sweets, he slimmed down and now he eats what he wants, goes to the gym, walks everywhere and is rarely ill :1b

[finleysmaid]

we had a ban on nuts all the time... saved us having to introduce it if we had a child with an allergy, it was part of our standard food policy.

 

 

 

 

 

As we have lots of children who are vegetarian, nuts are often included in lunches to increase their protein intake so actually a bit of a pain for us to ban but the needs of the few sometimes outweigh the needs of the many!

[Upsy Daisy]

I think we need to consider the benefit to the children of such a ban.

 

My response, as a parent who has never sent either chocolate spread or jam sandwiches in lunchboxes would be irritation, a strong urge to send lemon curd in the next day and a feeling of being patronised.

 

Most parents sending jam or chocolate spread are probably doing it through ignorance or a belief that it is all their child will eat. How does banning them address either of these issues?

 

I would prefer to used posters and newsletters to educate the first group. For the second group I would hold the type of activities described above where children are given the opportunities to explore new foods in a safe environment, try them if they wish and then helped to report back their new tastes to their parents in a positive, non-threatening way.

 

The outcome of both of these options should be that the child's overall diet becomes more varied and perhaps healthier.

 

The outcome of banning will probably be that they just have the chocolate spread at teatime instead.

 

The parents are the people who see the child's diet over whole weeks, not just one meal. They are better placed to judge whether their child's overall diet has a healthy balance. One meal a day does not make a diet.

 

I don't think it is our place to make these judgements and try to take control of how they feed their children.

[lashes2508]

Love it , so many varied comments and so many reasons for and against. What I find really interesting is that many have said ' as a parent ' or ' parents would not be happy' , but at the same time we bang on about parents being the child first and foremost educator .

 

Sadly many parents have not had role models themselves , the older ones amongst us remember the eat it or go without, was that such a bad thing , we came from a society where waste meant money , where we appreciated things more , just because society and families change should we go along for the ride whether we agree or not , should we leave our values and knowledge behind or should we focus on the whole family not just the child.

 

As I stated it was my personal opinion , some of my colleagues don't necessarily agree but it's good to sound out a wide variety of people and their feedback.

 

Well today I put it to the children , no moans or groans and suggested we could go shopping and choose items we would like , the chocolate spread child eats cheese , cucumber and other things and then we could make our own lunches .

 

 

FB I still love frozen peas too !

[anne1]

I would just add when I said I sent what my grandson eats in his lunch box, I meant that is only what he eats , he also eats wholemeal buttered toast, coco pops and rice but that is it, the end of his repertoire of food. But I tell my daughter not to worry, she would only eat spaghetti Bolognese and bacon sandwiches at one stage. Now at 21 she eats almost everything and she was the only teenager to say and can we have vegetables mum. Is she overweight no she is a beautiful and very slim size 8.

I had four children all fussy eaters, but I gave them what I knew they would eat and always said if you see something on my plate you would like to try then ask me and I will give you some. They did and often surprised themselves when they realised they liked it. I never put it on their plate until they asked because children often feel that if it is on their plate they have to eat it.

Food can be control for children as they are very aware it is probably the one thing in their young lives they have the most control over.

Edited February 11, 2015 by anne1

[bubblejack]

On Thursdays and Fridays the children make their own lunches:choice of crackers, sandwich or toast followed by different fruits. It has been a roaring success. No waste at all. On Mondays and Tuesdays the children still bring their own. Many children are now bringing sandwiches/ crackers and fruit .

[finleysmaid]

On Thursdays and Fridays the children make their own lunches:choice of crackers, sandwich or toast followed by different fruits. It has been a roaring success. No waste at all. On Mondays and Tuesdays the children still bring their own. Many children are now bringing sandwiches/ crackers and fruit .

Bubblejack......do you ensure that all the food areas are covered then? (as this is only carb based from what you have described) .

[ForestFlo]

At our setting we do ban chocolate spread simply due to our nut allergies. However I wouldnt ban it simply because I deemed it unhealthy. Lunch boxes are such a nightmare for some parents, when my little one started preschool he wouldnt even eat bread that wasnt cooked (only liked toast :rolleyes: ) gradually we moved from crackers to a sandwich but the only filling he would eat was jam and believe me we tried everything. No its not the best of fillings but it could be worse and was always offset with fresh fruit, yogurt and lots of other yumminess. My bigger concerns are the parents who still insist their children need two bags of crisps and a couple of chocolate bars or bags of haribo in their lunch boxes! This is a battle we always face at the beginning of year but then preschool is about training both parents and children for big school, and by the end of the year most of our parents go away knowing what is expected of them in providing a healthy balanced packed lunch

FF

[bubblejack]

I hope I am providing a healthy lunch .Please correct me if I am wrong though. I always welcome suggestions to improve.

This is a replacement for lunch box from home

.During the morning Children make their own sandwiches :Bread /crackers, cheese, cooked meat.Some children want to try marmite as they see me eating it but it has a high salt content for children. Children that do not want to eat a sandwich are given toast at lunch time. These children sometimes eat the sandwich fillings alongside the toast. All children then choose from fruit selection: apple ,tangerine, banana, melon, grapes, cucumber and carrots. Children are then given milk to drink which they all seem to enjoy at the moment. Water is available all day anyway.

[finleysmaid]

Ah that's more clear! as long as you are providing fruit/veg /fibre/protein/carbs and dairy you should be fine. To me this is the tricky thing about providing food ..you are taking responsibility for the children's nutrition so keeping an eye on iron intake, vitamin intake etc need to be taken into account.

Although i am trained to do so i don't provide food as my children come from all over the world and their individual needs are incredibly diverse which would cause us immense issues! The cost involved would be prohibitive which is a shame...i love the idea of getting the children involved in preparing and serving, just not a possibility for us at the moment.

[bubblejack]

Phew that's good. There so many things now not to include because of salt content etc etc.