Guest Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Hi Just wondered if you have a body map on your form? Is it a requirement that we have one or could we describe the injury? Does the PSLA/NDNA have one on their forms Any thoughts appreciated!
SueJ Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 We don't have a body map - we just record the pre-existing injury and give a brief description of how it happened
blondie Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 we do use a body map - also a description of what the injury is and how it happened.
thumperrabbit Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 We were informed both at safeguarding and 1st aid training not to use body maps the reason given was that we are not doctors so we just put things like 'a visible mark at the top of the right arm' 2
Mouseketeer Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 We'd get through a lot of body maps just to show a graze to knee.....hopefully they can work out what a knee is without a map
mrsbat Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 We don't use body maps either. I've attached our forms just in case they are of any use to anyone. I updated it and now use the one for multiple injuries to the same child as it was easier to see regular injuries etc..... existing injuries form - june 2012.doc EY existing injuries form.doc 2
woodlands1997 Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 We don't record any existing injuries, just make sure at least two members of staff see them when they come in or as soon as they're noticed. Our last ofsted inspector asked us if we did, I said we didn't and explained what we do etc and she was fine! If there are any in places you wouldn't expect then we do record in a book!
mrsbat Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 We don't record any existing injuries, just make sure at least two members of staff see them when they come in or as soon as they're noticed. Our last ofsted inspector asked us if we did, I said we didn't and explained what we do etc and she was fine! If there are any in places you wouldn't expect then we do record in a book! When the two members of staff see them do you make a record of it? Ours are used so that we can see patterns if there are any, when you see the same child's injuries listed all on one sheet it's actually quite eye opening to see just how many times they come in with bumps, bruises etc. In fact by using them it actually bought up an issue that I could discuss with the local primary school because numerous children were coming in with cuts/bruises after slipping on the same piece of play equipment at the school when dropping off siblings - maybe they shouldn't have been on there in the first place but it prompted the school to issue a notice to parents about not letting children play on the equipment before school opening hours..... 1
woodlands1997 Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Nope we don't record it at all. We only record it if we think there is something we are not sure about. Surely somedays you would be writing loads, and how do you decide what's bad enough to write up and what isn't?
Mouseketeer Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Personally I'm surprised ofsted found that acceptable, we do it not only to cover ourselves, but to look for patterns and there may be that one time when what the parent/ child said about how it happened doesn't tie up, and I think you need to use your professional judgement about what you do/ don't record, particularly at this time of year with shorts and pedal bruises up shins, but if it's seen it goes in, and if it's noticed later it gets recorded, witnessed by 2 staff and parents are asked to sign on collection 2
sunnyday Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 I was 'pulled up' by Ofsted - inspection before last - for not recording existing injuries - so, yes I absolutely do record them - my form is the lovely Cait's work and includes a body map :1b 2
flowlow Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 We don't have a body map on existing injuries but do on accident forms and we do record everything. Although we have had a team discussion more recently about when to record accidents, for example do you record a little graze (even if it didn't require medical treatment) or do you not? do you record a when a child falls and bumps their knee which may or may not have had a red mark that may or may not be there at home time? and so on. Any way I like both the examples given here they are much nicer than our forms which I think was adapted from a childminder one.
Stargrower Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 We record them and use a body map on these, incident forms and accident forms. We are told quite clearly on safeguarding courses that we should use body maps. We have one with showing a whole body, front and back and one with the profile and front view of a face.
woodlands1997 Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 So what kind of things do you record? A small graze on a knee? A bruise on a shin? Also what if you don't notice them until half way through the day, do you record and get parents to sign at the end - what if they don't?? I have looked through the ndna advice notes and stuff and nowhere does it give an example or even mention existing injury forms, also we have never been told to record everything in safeguarding training etc just things that we think are not from everyday play. I don't want to add more paperwork unless I really really really have to!!
Joanne123 Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 We do not note everything. Usually if child has had an accident in the last 24 hours and we are concerned that head was banged or (for example) child holding arm awkwardly. Or if there were concerns for the child. Joanne
sunnyday Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 So what kind of things do you record? A small graze on a knee? A bruise on a shin? Also what if you don't notice them until half way through the day, do you record and get parents to sign at the end - what if they don't?? I have looked through the ndna advice notes and stuff and nowhere does it give an example or even mention existing injury forms, also we have never been told to record everything in safeguarding training etc just things that we think are not from everyday play. I don't want to add more paperwork unless I really really really have to!! I completely understand your reluctance to add to you paperwork......however as my previous post, I was, many moons ago 'pulled up' by Ofsted for not recording 'existing injuries' - so make sure that I do so now! :1b I record pretty much all types of injuries - I hope to notice them when children are arriving - but some 'slip by unnoticed' - in which case I will ask the child what has happened and then when parents collect will just say something like "oops I didn't notice that bruise on Johnny's forehead - he told me that he fell from the trampoline - I should have asked you to complete this form - would you mind doing it now" - to date (hope I'm not tempting fate here) I haven't had any 'refusals'........ Most of my parents will actually say to me "this happened yesterday do i need to fill ot one of your forms" when they arrive with an 'injured child' As mouseketeer said - it really does help to identify any 'patterns' and is a useful tool with regard to safeguarding...... 1
mrsbat Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I completely understand your reluctance to add to you paperwork......however as my previous post, I was, many moons ago 'pulled up' by Ofsted for not recording 'existing injuries' - so make sure that I do so now! :1b I record pretty much all types of injuries - I hope to notice them when children are arriving - but some 'slip by unnoticed' - in which case I will ask the child what has happened and then when parents collect will just say something like "oops I didn't notice that bruise on Johnny's forehead - he told me that he fell from the trampoline - I should have asked you to complete this form - would you mind doing it now" - to date (hope I'm not tempting fate here) I haven't had any 'refusals'........ Most of my parents will actually say to me "this happened yesterday do i need to fill ot one of your forms" when they arrive with an 'injured child' As mouseketeer said - it really does help to identify any 'patterns' and is a useful tool with regard to safeguarding...... Spot on, we do and say exactly the same Parents are really good about it too and generally come in saying they need a form lol 1
mrsbat Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 sorry just to add too, I am having a safeguarding audit this week with our development worker, I had to complete a long form saying what we have in place etc and one of the questions on there was "Existing injuries are recorded on the same day and where appropriate discussed with parents and children and parents are asked to sign a copy of the record" Having all the things on the audit in place is one of the expectations of county for us to be entitled to receive/offer Early Years funding........
finleysmaid Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 yep i'm with sunnyday and Mrsbat on this one ...i too was told we HAD to when inspected and on the lasy inspection she checked our books too. It is really for insurance and safeguarding purposes . On a recent CPP we had to record things like existing injuries as part of the assessment. (we dont use body maps though and have not been told to in this area only for disclosure purposes) 1
woodlands1997 Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 It's strange how it differs, I completed our safeguarding audit for county in October last year and no mention at all (annual) The ofsted inspector may 2012 asked if we did them as a child came in with head bump, I explained what we did but nothing actually written down and she was fine with this. When was your inspection finleysmaid? We record any that we think are unusual or not everyday accidents or that have required treatment eg by the hospital but that's all and obviously any wth children 'at risk' in a child protection plan or anything. I presume then most of you are having to complete these at least once a day? We are re registering so may clarify this on the registration visit and see if they give me a definitive answer! Doubtful though!!
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