sunnyday Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Happy to sign your petition - good luck with it :1b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Very many thanks for this. Please feel free to repost to anywhere that you feel may help. :1b Happy to sign your petition - good luck with it :1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 To play devils advocate for a moment: In essence is the first degree the issue? All the subject areas do in my humble opinion include the EYFS, for example EAD links directly into the curricula for Art, Design Technology and Music, English or MFL would give you a good insight into the Communication and Language/literacy Aspects. Having unpicked the EYFSP exceeding the links across all the curricula for children at any age are quite clear I think. The early years is the "foundation stage" for the national curriculum by definition. The first degree is not about the PGCE that follows - that would surely be where child development etc are studied? Leading on whole school curricula areas is also part of the expectations post NQT year, which again is where subject specialisms can come into play. You need to be able to work with staff across all 3 key stages and inspire confidence in your subject knowledge. I was also interested that the training requires you to be able to move around their "regions" and go where they need you. That's also a tough criteria I think. Cx 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 I absolutely agree that all of the 'valued' core degree subjects demonstrate skills that are relevant and transferable for use in teaching children aged from 3 to 7 years. However these skills must be combined with other valuable aptitudes such as: abilities to work in partnership with families, communities and multi-agencies; commitment to delivering inclusive practice; awareness of the critical factors impacting on the well-being and development of young children and how to manage difficult issues, attachments and transitions; ability to provide suitably individualised, challenging play and exploration in all the EYFS areas of development for every child; ability to manage interactions and interventions to ensure sustained shared thinking, to make connections and to transform understanding; ............ etc. Personally, I feel that the ability to sustain the Principles of the EYFS should carry far more weight than talents in traditional core subjects when attracting potential teachers to train in the 3-7 sector. Also, it must be morally unfair to suggest that: the ability to effectively demonstrate these Principle skills for meeting the standards of the EYFS should not ensure applicants can be considered for training to achieve QTS in the sector! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 OK, but the giving of QTS must also be the same regardless of what part of education you are working in surely. As I said earlier, to cover 3 - 7 is far more than just the EYFS and teaching in a school is far more than just being knowledgeable about one phase. I agree the other skills you give are important but they are already part and parcel of being a teacher, regardless of the phase you teach in. All teachers have to meet the Teachers Standards to be awarded QTS in the first place. In this respect being a teacher in the EYFS key stage is no different to teaching at KS4. Yes, there are differences in some pedagogy, but that is not the same as the skills and aptitudes of being a teacher that the Standards describe. Teachers will be able to learn and implement different pedagogies at different times and in different age groups but all teachers must demonstrate the standards at all times. I would argue there has to be a consistency in the awarding of QTS, as all teachers have the same teaching qualification, regardless of their degrees and other training or experiences along the way. Cx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 So, if I accept these criteria, how do I proceed? I am aged 50, currently paid £12600pa, in a secure job by a local authority nursery school. This is the same position I had at the beginning of my training in 2008. I am currently the sole wage earner struggling to run a family of 5, with an unemployed husband, a daughter at university and two more in sixth form. I have: 1st class BA(Hons) in Early Childhood, Education & Care (2012); Early Years Professional Status (2013); GCEs including Maths, English & Science; 13 years experience in nursery settings (mainly LA 3-5s). I have applied to 'Salaried Schools Direct' to access training and succeeded in getting an interview. I had a good interview but was unsuccessful due to lack of primary experience (there is no Early Years Schools Direct training available locally). I attempted to apply to Teach First - Early Years Teacher Training with QTS, but was advised that I am ineligible due to my degree not being in a preferred core subject. I do not have further finances to pay for additional PGCE training and cannot afford to take unpaid leave to attend work placements. It is hardly practical to take another degree in a preferred core subject! If I try to obtain a primary school position, I will have to give up my secure job for a lower paid position, probably on a temporary contract. All this risk, so that I can apply again to Schools Direct and hope that I am successful next time! Having spent the last 5 years jumping through hoops (big, small, flaming, barbed wire) I cannot believe that my training and experience count for absolutely nothing. It seems that I have hit a brick wall. I will be eternally grateful if anyone can give me a workable solution!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I have watched this debate with interest but have not commented until now for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I have enormous sympathy for you in the situation you find yourself in. Your list of achievements and qualifications does you much credit, and it is clear that you are a committed and knowledgeable practitioner. I think a lot has been made of the parity of EYPs and those with QTS since the very beginning, although it was always clear in my mind that the two skill sets were very different. I didn't embark on the degree and EYPS with an eye on becoming a qualified teacher, because I didn't think my experience and qualifications would provide the most natural fit with that career path. Nor was I ever persuaded that my salary would increase once I had gained EYPS (but that is a whole different story). There is so much competition for places on primary teacher training pathways and it can be incredibly disheartening to discover that being a straight 'A' student will not guarantee you a place on your chosen training course. I heard recently from someone who has been trying for three years to secure a place: good (non-childcare but solid curriculum-related) degree, excellent long standing and relevant experience within primary schools with much to offer. Finally this year she has secured a place for 2013/14 and is delighted, but it has been a long struggle for her despite the fact that she ticked every single box in terms of meeting the entry criteria. If your lack of experience within a primary school has been cited as the only weakness in your application then sadly this is a powerful barrier you are always likely to face because there are so many fantastic TAs who are going through exactly the same training and qualification routes you have. They have lots of specific, relevant experience (often across the whole age range of their school and not just up to five) which will provide the strong underpinnings for their teacher training: in essence you (and I, potentially) are not competing on an equal footing. One other thought occurs though: have you considered applying for teaching jobs within free schools or academies? As I understand it, they do not face the same restrictions in needing to employ those with QTS to each within their early years classes. I am open to be corrected on this point, of course - I'm not really au fait with the technicalities and intricacies! Good luck with your quest to become a qualified teacher. If determination and persistence plays any part at all, I'm sure you'll get there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 I have watched this debate with interest but have not commented until now for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I have enormous sympathy for you in the situation you find yourself in. Your list of achievements and qualifications does you much credit, and it is clear that you are a committed and knowledgeable practitioner. I think a lot has been made of the parity of EYPs and those with QTS since the very beginning, although it was always clear in my mind that the two skill sets were very different. I didn't embark on the degree and EYPS with an eye on becoming a qualified teacher, because I didn't think my experience and qualifications would provide the most natural fit with that career path. Nor was I ever persuaded that my salary would increase once I had gained EYPS (but that is a whole different story). There is so much competition for places on primary teacher training pathways and it can be incredibly disheartening to discover that being a straight 'A' student will not guarantee you a place on your chosen training course. I heard recently from someone who has been trying for three years to secure a place: good (non-childcare but solid curriculum-related) degree, excellent long standing and relevant experience within primary schools with much to offer. Finally this year she has secured a place for 2013/14 and is delighted, but it has been a long struggle for her despite the fact that she ticked every single box in terms of meeting the entry criteria. If your lack of experience within a primary school has been cited as the only weakness in your application then sadly this is a powerful barrier you are always likely to face because there are so many fantastic TAs who are going through exactly the same training and qualification routes you have. They have lots of specific, relevant experience (often across the whole age range of their school and not just up to five) which will provide the strong underpinnings for their teacher training: in essence you (and I, potentially) are not competing on an equal footing. One other thought occurs though: have you considered applying for teaching jobs within free schools or academies? As I understand it, they do not face the same restrictions in needing to employ those with QTS to each within their early years classes. I am open to be corrected on this point, of course - I'm not really au fait with the technicalities and intricacies! Good luck with your quest to become a qualified teacher. If determination and persistence plays any part at all, I'm sure you'll get there. Thank you for your well-considered response to these postings. I, also, did not set out to be a primary school teacher when I enrolled to become an EYP. My interests lie with children prior to reaching the compulsory school-age and this continues to motivate me. I agree that the skill sets required for each of these jobs are different in many respects although I do acknowledge where some skills do indeed cross over. However, I would argue that neither job should be deemed more important than the other. The roles should be enshrined in what is best practice for each age group and for each individual child. Likewise, I never believed that EYPs would be paid an equivalent rate to primary school QTS. Although, that may be due in part to the cynicism of my advancing years. I did believe that the improved skills that I would develop through my studies would benefit my pupils beyond measure. In this respect I think (immodest I know) I have succeeded. - And I had hoped that I might have attracted some kind of financial reward. What I did not bank on, was that following five years of extensive study, significant cost implications and the general impact on other areas of my life, I am in exactly the same job, at the same pay scale. - My new skill set is used every day and I have multiple additional responsibilities but alas I am unlikely to get paid anything extra for it. In fact, I guess I am just lucky to be employed! I hope forum readers do not mind my current petulant state. I do truthfully believe that my additional and specific training for EY degree and EYPS was invaluable in terms of how I approach the educational and well-being needs of young children and their families. I just feel unvalued and unappreciated with so little room to manoeuvre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I hope forum readers do not mind my current petulant state. I do truthfully believe that my additional and specific training for EY degree and EYPS was invaluable in terms of how I approach the educational and well-being needs of young children and their families. I just feel unvalued and unappreciated with so little room to manoeuvre! The great thing about the Forum is that we're here for whatever your current state of mind. We'll be here to celebrate with you when you make that breakthrough, or when you reach that place where you begin to feel valued and appreciated again. We've all been where you are now, albeit for a whole host of different reasons, and we've all felt able to come here and seek support and advice, or just to vent our frustrations! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ratatat, I have no advice to add - Maz said what I might have, but I want you to know there are loads of us 'out there' who are, or could be/have been in your situation. It could, indeed, have been me but I am older than you and realised it was never going to happen. I hope you find a solution - please keep us in the loop! PS - I heartily endorse Maz's last comment!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 One other thought occurs though: have you considered applying for teaching jobs within free schools or academies? As I understand it, they do not face the same restrictions in needing to employ those with QTS to each within their early years classes. I am open to be corrected on this point, of course - I'm not really au fait with the technicalities and intricacies! As far as I am aware any school establishment outside of the maintained sector can employ anyone they want - Independent, Free and Academies fall into this I think. However you would not automatically have the national pay awards or conditions of employment that apply to teachers in the maintained schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Yes catma, that was the other bit of information I meant to add to my already long response! I know there are also perceived barriers to head teachers employing EYPs because of their inability to work across the age range, thereby limiting staff deployment and mobility throughout the school. I wonder if there are EYPs working in this capacity in schools, who have subsequently been able to get onto a training pathway to gain QTS? Would be interesting to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Only 14 signatures so far! Come on forum members get signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) Link to petition: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/department-for-education-stop-discrimination-against-early-years-professionals?utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition My attempts to enrol on additional QTS training in order that I can access the "Teachers Pay Scale" have proven fruitless because my existing 1st class BA(Hons) Early Years Degree, Maths, English & Science GCEs, 13 years experience and Early Years Professional Status make me ineligible to access QTS training to teach in the Early Years. The providers say I should instead have a degree in a Core Curriculum Subject (I.e. English, maths, science, ICT, PE, RE, etc.) !!!! Yes, this is for the Early Years QTS! I know that currently there are about 13000 Early Years Professionals. I am certain that more EYPs and other Early Years Practitioners are unhappy about this state of affairs and the variety of hurdles that are in place to prevent their career development. We are constantly reminded that we must train to teach in Primary School to access suitable pay and status because we are not trained to teach. No-one is claiming that the two jobs are the same, however this does not mean that the Early Years Educators are any less critical to the well-being and development outcomes for children All this, in spite of plethora of research and theory impacting on Early Years policy and practice to establish the importance of the sector and the crucial work that we do to! Edited June 23, 2013 by Ratatat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Happy to sign :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Have signed Ratatat and will pass it on to all those I work with too, good luck with this xxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 signed good luck xxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Does anyone know how to get the petition posted onto TWITTER or TUMBLR? I am afraid I only understand Facebook! Edited June 25, 2013 by Ratatat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Best thing is to set yourself up with a twitter (and tumblr) account. I don't do tumblr but I follow a lot of interesting people on twitter (including a fair few FSF members). In fact I have two twitter accounts - one for personal and one for early years stuff. Then, tweet the link and encourage people you follow and your followers to retweet it once they've signed. The twitter experience is all about who you follow - but it can take some time to build up relationships there because people who don't follow you won't necessarily see your tweets but once you crack it, it is never dull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 I have just started tweeting but as you say you need followers and I don't have any yet. What I need is someone with a well established Twitter following! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Does anyone know how to get the petition posted onto TWITTER or TUMBLR? I am afraid I only understand Facebook! I've put it on twitter, dont understand tumbler though :huh: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I've put it on twitter, dont understand tumbler though :huh: You don't understand 'tumbler' - I've never even heard of it :blink: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 It is called Tumblr (don't know why it is spelled like that) and apparently it is another type of networking thingy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 What's your twitter username? Have a look at my (not used very much) early years twitter account - @EarlyYearsBod. Check out who I'm following - there's lots of education bloggers who you could tweet asking them to retweet your link. One word of caution though - don't be a one-issue tweeter. People won't follow you if you confine yourself to talking about your petition. Make sure you give the twittersphere your views on a range of issues! And re-tweet other people's blogs, articles and comment. You'll be the queen of twitter in no time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 You don't understand 'tumbler' - I've never even heard of it :blink: You remind me of my lovely friend who I call Old'un, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It is called Tumblr (don't know why it is spelled like that) and apparently it is another type of networking thingy!! Oh right - no hope of me keeping up I'm afraid - my eleven year old granddaughter has set up 'skype' for me and I thought that was completely wonderful - but now she's telling about 'instagram' (don't s'pose that's the correct spelling either :blink: ) - can't cope - do I want to? No not really 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 instagrams photos I think, but I havent fathomed that one yet. I remember when we had our first video recorder, mom couldnt work it and now I'm turning into her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatat Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Thank you so much. I will take a look. My daughter tried to bring me into the Twitter world some time ago by setting up an account for me but I never did much with it. Looks like I need to learn fast! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Doh. It's a glass you drink from. Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 instagrams photos I think, but I havent fathomed that one yet. And videos now, Rea! How's the twitter take over going, Ratatat? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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