Ms Truss is really getting on my nerves!

[finleysmaid]

Just written to my MP....not a very focused letter ...too cross for that!

[Madmum]

I am still a little confused about child ratios. I posted on here last week about rising threes. My head said that she has checked and we can take rising threes without a change to staffing ratios. Does anyone know where I can find this out.

I am with you on this! it's exactly what we were told and it was confirmed with our LA EY Advisor. I am asking the Head to recheck this week. Wonder if we're the same LA?!

Some of the comments on your original post imply we may be a little dense, which is not the case at all!! it is however the case that the hierarchy in schools/LA makes it very difficult to argue with some people!

[Pimms o'clock?]

Sounds like a plan Pimms - she is a fellow Kenter you know!

 

 

 

She used to live in Goodnestone, near Canterbury (was next door to a friend of mine) but moved a few years ago I thought I was told she lives in Oxfordshire now, but if you know where she is Sunnyday, track her down - what she did for the Ghurka ex-soldiers was awesome and we need awesome now.

[Rea]

Panic over

I've been googling Ms truss media comments and came across the online chat she had on Mumsnet. Interestingly the comments in todays Daily Mail were contradicted by herself on mumsnet http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/a1677953-Live-webchat-about-childcare-reform-with-Liz-Truss-Education-Childcare-Minister-Thursday-7-February-1pm

There were some very frustrated people on there and her answers were really not answers all of the time. The Q&As took place in February.

[Running Bunny]

I'm only just returning to the forum after 5 years, so be gentle with me!!

I haven't been keeping up with the media furore surrounding this MP, but I'm astounded by the Daily Mail article and her address to the Nursery World Conference!

I'm not working in a nursery at the moment, but am on the committee of a playgroup, so don't have any day to day dealings with children, but know how hard it is for the staff to manage the 24 2-rising 5s we have in one room.

 

Raising quality by having better qualified staff is all well and good, and I'm all for developing ones education, practice and learning but at the end of the day (or the start, for that matter!) We still only have one pair of eyes and two hands!

 

So, nurseries are "chaotic" and a breeding ground for "children with no manners", yet she expects ONE PERSON to look after 13 3-5 year olds, because they have studied at University? I'm not disrespecting graduates at all and please don't take it that way (I'm one, as is our playgroup supervisor) but this really frightens me.

 

All I can see is the return to sitting at desks and doing worksheets from a young age and now she is busting the myths about not having to have free-flow or a certain amount of child-led activities, so this is going to be carte-blanche for some (thankfully, not many I hope) poorer settings to have an excuse to return to adult-led and only going outside 'weather permitting' i.e. from June - August!!!

 

And don't get me started on quality support being removed from LAs.....!!

Off to search more topics to rant on

[HappyMaz]

Welcome back, Running Bunny - glad to see you!

 

A friend share this on facebook and so I thought I'd share: well supported, articulate blog showing why the Minister is utterly wrong.

 

http://www.earlyarts.co.uk/ruths-blog/entry/2013/04/22/from-the-three-rs-to-the-three-ss--sit-down-shut-up-and-stop-being-such-a-child-1

[sunnyday]

Thank you! :1b

[SueJ]

Very eloquently argued - thanks for that Maz

[Rea]

My letter to my MP. Any comments will be gratefully received before I press send :1b

 

Dear Mr McCabe,

Last year you kindly passed on my comments to Mr Gove and Ms Teather respectively.

Might I ask that you pass on some more questions, this time to Ms Elizabeth Truss?

Ms Truss is causing some consternation amongst those of us who work within the Early years sector and I feel clarification of some of her comments might help us.

In February Ms Truss took part in an online Q&A session with Mumsnet ( http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/a1677953-Live-webchat-about-childcare-reform-with-Liz-Truss-Education-Childcare-Minister-Thursday-7-February-1pm ).

During the questioning she was asked a number of questions relating to the proposals for Early Years. When asked how increasing nursery ratios would benefit children, she said "...What we're saying is that there's an option for nurseries, so this isn't compulsory, to have more flexibility over their staff numbers if they upskill the workforce."

In the Daily ail of 22nd April, Ms Truss said "...education watchdog Ofsted will be expected to mark down pre-school providers who do not take on better-qualified staff and offer children more structure.

Question 1. Is it to be compulsory or not that we change our ratios and take on better qualified staff?

Question 2. Could Ms Truss direct me to research which shows 'more structure' is beneficial to young children?

Question 3. Exactly what type of structure is she proposing?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, during the interview with Mumsnet, Ms Truss was asked how many parents, childminders and nursery staff she had spoken to regarding the ratios. She answered 'lots and lots....

Question 4. Could Ms Truss clarify how many parents, childminders and nursery staff had she spoken to regarding ratios? Lots and lots is a rather loose number.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In an interview with Nursery World publication 19th April 2013, Ms Truss said " There are various myths about practice. I want to point out that these things are not required by Ofsted, but most settings think they are. Firstly, free-flow play between indoors and outdoors is not a requirement and not something Ofsted will be looking for. It is not a requirement to have a certain amount of child-led activity.’

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/rss/1179282/EYFS-not-straitjacket-says-Elizabeth-Truss/

An inspection report for a nursery within the B14 area from February 2013 has a recommendation that the setting "develop the outdoor environment to improve opportunities for doing things in different ways, and on different scales, to when indoors, and to offer children more freedom to explore, use their senses, and be physically active and exuberant.

Question 5. Could Ms Truss clarify does outdoors matter and are we to follow her recommendations or Ofsteds?

Finally, as consultations are ongoing regarding the proposed changes with Early Years, could Ms Truss clarify whether these changes set in stone yet or will the ongoing consultations have any bearing on the outcome? At every interview I've read there is never any mention of the consultation process and we within Early Years arent sure if it will be listened to.

[Rea]

Nursery World has some comments too

 

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1179418/Sector-vents-anger-childcare-ministers-remarks/

[sunnyday]

Rea - I think your letter is just great - good for you! :1b

[HappyMaz]

Looks good to me Rea!

 

The only question I'd ask is about your use of the two quotes you've selected about ratios and more qualified staff. I can't quite see the link: in the first she's saying that it is not compulsory for settings to relax their ratios when they upskill the workforce. In the second she's saying that settings are likely to get marked down for not upskilling the workforce and failing to offer the structure she desires. She doesn't mention ratios at all in the second quote, so she isn't actually saying it will be compulsory to work to the new ratios, but is (more or less) saying that it will be compulsory (or at least expected) that settings will take on graduate practitioners.

 

I'll be interested to see how he responds: I can well imagine that constitutency MPs will get very fed up of people writing to or emailing them because Ms Truss isn't taking enquiries from people who aren't in her constitutency!

[Rea]

Looks good to me Rea!

 

The only question I'd ask is about your use of the two quotes you've selected about ratios and more qualified staff. I can't quite see the link: in the first she's saying that it is not compulsory for settings to relax their ratios when they upskill the workforce. In the second she's saying that settings are likely to get marked down for not upskilling the workforce and failing to offer the structure she desires. She doesn't mention ratios at all in the second quote, so she isn't actually saying it will be compulsory to work to the new ratios, but is (more or less) saying that it will be compulsory (or at least expected) that settings will take on graduate practitioners.

 

I'll be interested to see how he responds: I can well imagine that constitutency MPs will get very fed up of people writing to or emailing them because Ms Truss isn't taking enquiries from people who aren't in her constitutency!

 

 

I had the same thought Maz about the ratios quote, I think I left something out but I was interrupted while I was writing it. I'll go back and check :1b My MP is Labour and quite happy to push for answers I think :rolleyes:

[Rea]

Also, I keep finding reference to Barcelona Targets. It seems in 2002 it was decided by the European Union that all countries should try harder when it comes to childcare. I cant help think Ms Truss is thinking about that when she tries to get more children into nurseries rather than the benefit for the children!

Barcelona Targets the_provision_childcare_services.pdf

[Rea]

I've changed the first part of the email, any comments?? :1b

During the questioning she was asked a number of questions relating to the proposals for Early Years.

Ms Truss replied "The point about structure is that I think parents should have this option. There are various opinions on the best way of managing an early education facility. I'm not a childcare professional, but what I do think is that we need to give room for various different models to operate, and parents can then make judgments about what suits their child.

The point about the way nurseries operate that I;ve noticed in France, there's quite a structured approach where qualified professionals organise activities for groups of children, and I think that is beneficial . Children and parents are very happy with that. I'm not saying every nursery in England should operate in that way, but I do think parents should have a choice of a more structured approach, with highly qualified professionals.

In the Daily Mail of 22nd April, Ms Truss said "...education watchdog Ofsted will be expected to mark down pre-school providers who do not take on better-qualified staff and offer children more structure.

Question 1. Is it to be voluntary or not that we change our ratios?

Question 2. Is it to be voluntary or not that we take on 'highly qualified professionals?

Question 3. Define 'structure'.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Rea

[Upsy Daisy]

From the Mumsnet link

"The point about the way nurseries operate that I;ve noticed in France, there's quite a structured approach where qualified professionals organise activities for groups of children, and I think that is beneficial . Children and parents are very happy with that."

I guess the reason parents are happy is that they don't have an understanding of how play is the best way for children to learn. I wonder how she's finding out the children's opinions.

[Rea]

Children dont figure very much in her replies do they? Its always what the parents want.

[flowlow]

Did anyone else see newsnight last night. They showed French nurseries and comments from Liz Truss.

 

The opening comments left me astounded, apparently children only have a tantrum or throw food in French nurseries (well schools that start at three is the definition they make) when they are TOLD TO DO SO!!!

 

That is apart from saying that they are led by practitioners that 'are qualified and know what they are doing!' does that by implication mean that we in this country do not know what we are doing!!!! how insulting

 

I would like to know what qualifications she has to feel she can comment then? obviously all the study we do does not leave us with the 'right' knowledge to know what we are doing, so does her qualifications then??

 

She says that women need to have the option to work for economic reasons and that they are made to feel guilty, am I missing the point though how does more structure and greater ratio of children to adults change their guilt levels? surely if you feel that your child wasn't getting good quality care because no matter the qualification you still only have one pair of hands that would make you feel more guilty!!!

 

I love the way when interviewed she says 'of course we are not talking about three year olds sitting down writing things!!' but what does she then mean by structured play? she wants them calm, sitting down at desks etc... getting 'school ready' what does she mean then!!!!

 

Interesting debate although still made me cross

[flowlow]

also interestingly apparently only settings with high qualifications levels in staff will be allowed to make ratio changes! or so she said then!

 

Did love the woman from mothers at home matter she was fairly cross and had some excellent points shame old Liz didn't answer them properly!!!

[Rea]

The setting she mentions a number of times in interviews is Durand Academy. They were judged Outstanding in 2008 and became an Academy in 2012.

The Ofsted report from 2008 will stand until 3 years after it became an academy, which means it hasnt been inspected since then and wont be until 2015.

In 1998 the school set up its own limited trading company which has built a restaurant and a private members health club on a site nearby. They've also built a complex of 47 apartments which are often rented to the NQTs.

They only recruit NQTs.

It appears from their web page they are hand in hand with the government, they have some big backers. The report from 2008 isnt available.

They also seem to have spent a lot of money on legal fees over the years.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Rea

[catma]

The setting she mentions a number of times in interviews is Durand Academy. They were judged Outstanding in 2008 and became an Academy in 2012.

The Ofsted report from 2008 will stand until 3 years after it became an academy, which means it hasnt been inspected since then and wont be until 2015.

In 1998 the school set up its own limited trading company which has built a restaurant and a private members health club on a site nearby. They've also built a complex of 47 apartments which are often rented to the NQTs.

They only recruit NQTs.

It appears from their web page they are hand in hand with the government, they have some big backers. The report from 2008 isnt available.

They also seem to have spent a lot of money on legal fees over the years.

And they are currently embroiled in a controversial plan for a secondary school out of the borough.

[lynned55]

Are they the ones who are looking to fund a boarding school in Surrey through their leisure centre? It will be totally free to parents?

[SueJ]

From one of my news feeds

 

 

Liz Truss forced to reveal that she has only made 6 official visits to childcare settings.

Following a question from Sharon Hodgson, Labour MP for Washington and Sunderland West, Liz Truss has revealed that she has only made 6 official visits to childcare settings since becoming a minister in May 2010.

Sharon Hodgson, Labour MP for Washington and Sunderland West

These visits were to:

• Chapeltown Children’s Centre
• Loughborough Children’s Centre
• Durand Academy Early Years Centre (Twice)
• Marsham Street Community Nursery
• Pimlico Academy’s breakfast club and out of hours provision
• Norwich Free School’s out of hours provision

The Pre-school Learning Alliance noted that earlier this week, the Minister stated in a Daily Mail interview that she had seen “too many chaotic settings”.

The interview described childcare providers in England as “breeding a generation of unruly toddlers.” However, the recent Ofsted reports of the early years settings visited by the minister paint a very different picture.

For example, the 2011 inspection report for Chapeltown Children’s Centre describes the children’s behaviour as “exemplary”, while the 2012 report for Loughborough Children’s Centre states that the children “listen, take turns and work harmoniously together”.

Similarly, the children of Marsham Street Children’s Centre are described as being “consistently busy and interested in what they are doing which results in respectful, calm and good behaviour” in the setting’s 2012 Ofsted report.

However, a spokesperson for the Department for Education said: “Elizabeth Truss has visited many nurseries and other childcare settings as a parent, before she became a MP, as a backbencher, and as a Minister. “She has visited some excellent nurseries but the Government wants more outstanding facilities so that young children get the best start in life.”

Do you have faith in Liz Truss’ ability to shape the future of Early Years? Let us know below.

 

The bit in red in particular made me laugh - when asked to come into a nursery to see how she would cope on ratios of 1:13 didn't she say something along the lines of she was only being asked to do that because she was a woman and a mother and that she didn't think that a male MP would be asked to do this - surely therefore her experiences of nursery visits as a parent don't count as they weren't undertaken as part of her ministerial portfolio and we would hate to take into account any of her thoughts and views when she was only wearing her parent/mother/woman hat

[sunnyday]

Wow! Thanks for adding this Sue

[Inge]

I will add some of the links posted on the FSF addicts on Facebook for those not on there... been busy there today

 

http://juneosullivan.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/dear-colleagues-its-time-we-finally-took-control/

 

 

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/channel/comment/news/1180374/Wheres-evidence/

 

 

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulletin/nurseryworldupdate/article/1180360/?DCMP=EMC-CONNurseryWorldUpdate

 

 

http://www.labour.org.uk/governments-nursery-plans-wont-cut-childcare-costs-for-parents

[sunnyday]

Inge - thank you so much for adding these :1b

[SueJ]

Not many finding the ramblings of this minister palatable are there

[Rea]

Not many finding the ramblings of this minister palatable are there

All to the good though a little behind the FSF in their condemnation, its very welcome :)

[finleysmaid]

Got a VERY dissapointing response from my MP ...basically quoted me the 'more great childcare' info.....guess what he's a conservative!

[sunnyday]

Got a VERY dissapointing response from my MP ...basically quoted me the 'more great childcare' info.....guess what he's a conservative!

 

 

Grrrrrr :angry: