Hello Kitty Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 We were very excited to get a water butt along with our new canopy and the children really enjoy helping themselves to water to water the plants. So far nobody has tried to drink it but we do have a jug of water outside to drink so maybe that's why. We had a guy out yesterday checking our water and systems for legionnaire's disease and the temperature etc. I haven't seen the report yet but he apparently told our site manager that we have to get rid of the water butt as it poses too much of a risk. Thoughts please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 oooh we have had our for years and the kids love it!! No-one has drank from it, (she says hoping not to 'speak too soon'!!) and we have guards on the gutters above to stop large items of debris going in via the pipes. We did wonder for a long time about the hygiene of stagnant water etc but tbh it's never full for long! Environmental Health have never taken a particular interest in it during their annual visits - I shall watch this with interest, thanks for alerting us. Are you in the area with the Legionairres outbreak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 We were very excited to get a water butt along with our new canopy and the children really enjoy helping themselves to water to water the plants. So far nobody has tried to drink it but we do have a jug of water outside to drink so maybe that's why. We had a guy out yesterday checking our water and systems for legionnaire's disease and the temperature etc. I haven't seen the report yet but he apparently told our site manager that we have to get rid of the water butt as it poses too much of a risk. Thoughts please... :blink: Oh surely not....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristina Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 We have thought of water butts before but at present we have a child that has Cystic Fibrosis so not an option I'm afraid. Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 our water butt has a lid with a water fountain in the middle of it, so constant running water but no danger of falling in. We regularly dose it with miltons other wise it can get a bit smelly but am interested to see how high the risk of Legionnaires is, maybe someone out there knows about these things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Kitty Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ours never stays full for long either so maybe why that's why we've never considered it a problem - we've certainly not noticed any smells or slime in it! Will keep you all posted then. Oh and no idea if we're in an area of an outbreak... should probably check that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ours never stays full for long either so maybe why that's why we've never considered it a problem - we've certainly not noticed any smells or slime in it! Will keep you all posted then. Oh and no idea if we're in an area of an outbreak... should probably check that!! Not so long ago - there was a discussion on this forum about hosepipe bans......several people said that they would fill their water trays from water butts - have to say it all seemed like a good idea at the time My grandchildren have certainly played in water from my water butts at home - honestly never gave it a thought that they could come to any harm :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 We were very excited to get a water butt along with our new canopy and the children really enjoy helping themselves to water to water the plants. So far nobody has tried to drink it but we do have a jug of water outside to drink so maybe that's why. We had a guy out yesterday checking our water and systems for legionnaire's disease and the temperature etc. I haven't seen the report yet but he apparently told our site manager that we have to get rid of the water butt as it poses too much of a risk. Thoughts please... Our children have never tried to drink the water from the water butt!!!!! However, the toilet is a favourite!! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 ok a bit confused by this ...firstly legionnaires is caught by water droplets held in the air...i would think this might be quite difficult to do while filling up a bucket!! and what has cystic fibrosis got to do with it?? or am i just being really dumb (have to admit to being rather hot and tired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLIMBRIDGE Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 My husband knows about Legionella, he works on Facilities Management in hospitals. Will ask his opinion when he gets home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyPancakes Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Bit scary. One of the few real differences between growing up in rural Australia and living here is that here we drink the tap water and and use rain water for the garden, while in Australia we saved the rainwater for drinking (and washing whites) and used tap water (river water) for everything else. Of course if we thought there was a dead bird or something in the tank we might have boiled it first, and we always put a piece of pantyhose over the end of tap to catch the wrigglers. Honey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 My hubby is the health and safety bod at his work and he's just done training which included Legionella. He says at thiis time of year when water is sitting in water butts getting warm it would develop and is dangerous. Cold water is fine, but as soon as it warms up it develops. What a pain as I wanted water butts in my new nursery and now I don't think we can. My school has them and the children love using them but unless we are trained about these potential dangers how would we know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyPancakes Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Another little Australianism, We are taught every year in the Summer, 'Don't get water up your nose'. Kids can get amoebic meningitis when using paddling pools/untreated swimming pools that have been sitting around. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Still water is also a great home for midges and mosquitos. Hubby went to care for his moms grave yesterday and was bitten by the midges that had been living in the vase, his arm has 3 lumps on now one of which is about 3 inches in diameter. Shame you might not be able to go ahead with the butt though, we've just had a garden at playgroup and it was something I'd considered because there is no outside tap. :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Kitty Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 The Oz example made me chuckle! First of all the water is usually all gone the day after it rains as we are a large setting (56 place) so it doesn't take long for them to use it up so it really doesn't have a chance to get warm and breed nasties. Secondly they are encouraged to wash their hands or at least use anti-bac gel when they have finished playing outside. Thirdly OMG when are we going to teach children to DEAL with danger and risk instead of constantly shielding them from it. It really makes me cross. :angry: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hubby says that we all have no idea how bad cases of legionnella are getting, there are many many more cases than the tragic deaths that have recently happened. It is deadly and he says that during warm weather water butts should NOT be used. He is VERY adament about this!!!!! No water butt for me then....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelawills Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 we have a water butt at school but we do fill it everyday from the outside tap and as previous people have mentioned it really doesnt last very long. our site manager wasnt happy about filling with rainwater. We use it as a way to manage the amount of water we use as when its gone its gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlettangel Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am still not understanding the reference to C F though in amongst all this?!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Kitty Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Laura, could you please ask him for more information for me. How is it caught? By ingestion, breathing in...? I have read that putting charcoal in the butt stops it... is this true? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Kitty Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Just found this http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=541 Scarlettangel I think the link to CF is the reduced immunity...? My original google about water butts being safe for children brought me to a CF forum so I think it may be a disease that is particularly dangerous for them - I believe legionella affects the lungs but could well be wrong. Anyway the link above has sensible advice IMO. You need to scroll down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am still not understanding the reference to C F though in amongst all this?!!! Low immune system maybe? But what else can you catch from a water butt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Our children have never tried to drink the water from the water butt!!!!! However, the toilet is a favourite!! :blink: bleeeuurrrggghhhhhh!!! Never had the privilege...never want to have it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 what an interesting read, feel very ignorant now! Do you think it would help to have a thermometer to monitor water temp, (psrn opp!) and how hot would it need to be externally (air temp) for a full butt of water to reach 20*/ (thinking will our current miserable weather ever be able to achieve this!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hubby says that we all have no idea how bad cases of legionnella are getting, there are many many more cases than the tragic deaths that have recently happened. It is deadly and he says that during warm weather water butts should NOT be used. He is VERY adament about this!!!!! No water butt for me then....... Thanks really interesting information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 as to the cf link ...often these children are on high dose antibiotic permanently and have a higher immune system than the rest of us put together. I suppose the link must be between the organism that causes the cough (and damage to the lungs) i'll go and investigate...we already have a water feature and have planned for water butts so i need to get to the bottom of this. The hpa don't seem to have an email system for enquiries so i might try environmental health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristina Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The connection with CF is to do with a bacteria that releases spores into the air, this is produced by any standing water even puddles! We have a seperate risk assessment for this child, for example we can add fresh water into sand play but once finished the sand should be thrown. No digging in the mud for this little fellow and all equipment needs to be emptied and dried before Pre-School starts. Even leaf mulch is a risk factor, the CF nurse came in to visit and provided us with all the do's and dont's. Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The connection with CF is to do with a bacteria that releases spores into the air, this is produced by any standing water even puddles! We have a seperate risk assessment for this child, for example we can add fresh water into sand play but once finished the sand should be thrown. No digging in the mud for this little fellow and all equipment needs to be emptied and dried before Pre-School starts. Even leaf mulch is a risk factor, the CF nurse came in to visit and provided us with all the do's and dont's. Kris Gosh just as well she hasn't visited me then......i have had 2 children with CF we have never been requested to do this by parents! In fact my younger one comes to the forest school often and rolls around in the mud and puddles with everyone else. Their parents are very concerned with them living a life that is as normal as possible, neither of them are unwell children ( in fact they are some of the fittest and least ill in our group!). Is your little chap very poorly and this is then the wishes of his parents to keep him so protected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristina Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 He's not an ill child Finleysmiad, in fact been with us a year and only had 1 course of antibiotics!! Not sure why we have been provided with a list of do's and dont's for this child then!! He moves on in July to school, have to say it was both the CF nurse and the parents who discussed everything with us prior to his starting. They also informed us that 2 children with CF can not attend the same setting at the same time, we had to confirm this with them before he could start!! Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) oohps this is a problem then as these children are siblings and going to go to school together in september!!!!! Edit actually just thought that as they are siblings this makes no difference because the reason they wouldn't go to school together is so that they dont catch the bacteria from each other ...so unless they live apart then this will happen anyway! Edited June 29, 2012 by finleysmaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 OK, Hubby says as soon as it hits 20 degrees c celsius then it starts. It's carried in the vapour, and he's never heard of the charcoal thing and says if it was true it wold be a very easy fix so it can't be. Found a link that you might find useful http://oasis-rainharvesting.co.uk/legionnaires_disease_risks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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