thumperrabbit Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 We are finding it increasingly difficult to recruit treasurers, it has now come to a point where for the last year I can honestly say I'm not sure (as a manager) how much money we have. The Chair of the committee is saying that perhaps we should be paying someone to do this role BUT I do know that money is very tight and really we can't afford to pay someone - it's a catch 22 situation. My question is, how much of the Treasurer role are you doing by being the manager of a committee run pre-school? Part of me thinks I should take it on (although how I do this I don't know time wise) but then the other part of me thinks that I shouldn't as I have enough to do and it also takes away the 'community feeling of a village pre-school' i welcome your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hi we are a committee run preschool, or trustees now as we are also registered as a company and a charity, this was a condition of a grant we received. Many years ago now when small amounts of money came in and went out it was easy to keep accounts etc. Now it is certainly a business from the money aspect, so we employ a company to do wages, tax, NI etc, they also complete our end of year returns and audit our accounts. We have a treasurer that oversees all incomings, outgoings as well as a in-house administrator who is also employed to do Sage etc. Each supports the pre-school to run smoothly and efficiently. I do think in today's climate it is very difficult to get people that are able to give of their time and any expertise they may have. Keeping track of it all as a Manager is also essential to remain sustainable, as treasurers do come and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Thanks for your reply, Fredbear Would you mind me asking how much you pay the company to do what they do? I do agree with what you say about it's too much for a volunteer to do, I sadly haven't been 'on the case' as much as I should've been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Not sure exactly to the pound, but will check when I go in on Tuesday and pm you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Thumperrabbit...we have an adimistrator that does all the wages/invoices/letters etc etc. (she is also my deputy!) but they only work 2 days a week. so the cost may be less than you think, perhaps get a couple of bookkeepers in and see what they say, they can give you a quote. I have to say that i was really concerned about the cost and the shift from 'committee' trustee to independent but she saved the business over £4000 in the first year and i am now firmly in charge of the money. I can find out at any time what our income or expenditure is /ask her to find out how many days sickness someone has had/chase up unpaid invoices etc etc.....it's certainly worked for us! :1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel10 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hi I am the manager of a committee run playgroup and have done the wages for a few years now since an accountant made a right mess of it. For the past 2 years I have also taken over the accounts ( I have always done the bills) time wise its not good but knowing what's coming in and going out has been much better. I do the banking online, which helps and saves loads of time with the accounts. If there is no spare money in the budget, there maybe no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekker Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 We are committee run, I am manager and following change of constitution am able to be on the committee (though I always have attended meetings anyway). We have an administrator who does wages and invoices and yearly accounts etc alongside the voluntary treasurer...I dont have anything to do with the money side in a practical sense (in fact this year for it was even questioned if I should leave the room when the treasurers report is shared as im 'staff' and administrator wasnt sure I should be allowed to know that info - which I thought was nonsence ) Administrator is independent and works from home - puts in a bill at the end of each month for hours worked. We employed an adminsistrator to make it easier to get treasurer role filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 We are committee run, I am manager and following change of constitution am able to be on the committee (though I always have attended meetings anyway). We have an administrator who does wages and invoices and yearly accounts etc alongside the voluntary treasurer...I dont have anything to do with the money side in a practical sense (in fact this year for it was even questioned if I should leave the room when the treasurers report is shared as im 'staff' and administrator wasnt sure I should be allowed to know that info - which I thought was nonsence ) Administrator is independent and works from home - puts in a bill at the end of each month for hours worked. We employed an adminsistrator to make it easier to get treasurer role filled. Sounds like you run closer to how we are Trekker. I have an old committee member who offered to carry on paying the staff wages - a parent (who is due to leave this year) does fee slips, claims milk money....... then (supposedly ) the treasurer does the rest How many hours per month does your administrator claim? and do you mind saying how much you pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 One of our staff does the treasurer role, she's great but as a member of staff she shouldn't hold an officer role although being on the committee is fine. I cant get anyone else to be the treasurer, me and another member of staff sign the cheques and withdraw money from the bank. All details of finances are shared with the staff because when we're skint, which is often, it can help them understand why they cant have a pay rise again, why I prefer they dont spend on resources just yet and why we need to fundraise. We tried a paid administrator but it was difficult to say how many hours a week she'd need to be employed for and then she applied for the position on the staff team so she gave up that role anyway! We use an accountant to do the end of year and wages, but its a lot of money and I'm starting to think we could look elsewhere. Its the same old story of committee run settings needing to find a new way of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekker Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 not exactly sure exactly how many hours a month - but I'd estimate no more than 10 and probably quite a bit less most of the time (since just doing wages, invoices etc...and we are only a small group) pay is around £9 per hour (so = highest paid employee) - think rate is set by administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 not exactly sure exactly how many hours a month - but I'd estimate no more than 10 and probably quite a bit less most of the time (since just doing wages, invoices etc...and we are only a small group) pay is around £9 per hour (so = highest paid employee) - think rate is set by administrator. Thank you, by far more than any of us are paid too! I don't think we can afford that, but there again we can't afford to not know where we are finance wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 As manager I do invoices, pay bills , work out wages (which is then sent to a payrole company £6 per person a month with a copy to treasurer) I keep the accounts folder and the treasurer takes it at end of each half term to verify bank statements with cheque book & invoices . How many of you as reg charities need 2 sigs on cheques but have a debit card ? We use nat west but they say we can't have a card as only 1person could use it, I know that makes sense if needing 2sigs on a cheque but getting harder to buy things and I,m getting fed up of having to use personal card to purchase things online then reclaim money. How does anyone else get round this prob ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 As manager I do invoices, pay bills , work out wages (which is then sent to a payrole company £6 per person a month with a copy to treasurer) I keep the accounts folder and the treasurer takes it at end of each half term to verify bank statements with cheque book & invoices . How many of you as reg charities need 2 sigs on cheques but have a debit card ? We use nat west but they say we can't have a card as only 1person could use it, I know that makes sense if needing 2sigs on a cheque but getting harder to buy things and I,m getting fed up of having to use personal card to purchase things online then reclaim money. How does anyone else get round this prob ? Thanks for sharing how you do it. We don't have a card it's 2 signatures on a cheque for us too. I have to buy everything (£700 due to me once when buying a large piece of equipment) and then give invoice to treasurer for them to reimburse me, which depending on how often the treasurer is in can take up to a couple of weeks to get the money back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Our banks allowed us to have one person maintaining the online account and we use that to pay for items as much as possible by ordering and making payment by BACS transfer to the company. Otherwise we pay on personal cards and then the treasurer can make an immediate reimbursement to the staff member when the receipt is given in. We didn't investigate the debit card but the committee did need to all sign to accept that one person had control of the accounts online so it is sort of a similar thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Thank you for replies, the online way may be worth looking in to , not sure what we,re all going to do if cheques really do get phased out, we do have a few accounts set up for purchasing but more and more I,m finding we,re not getting the best value/ prices but pay higher prices as its most convenient way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Hi well we have two debit cards, one I use as supervisor, the second one is used by our administrator. We were told by PSLA and charity commission as long as your committee have written agreement and we have both signed to confirm this then it is okay. It is completely inconsiderate for others to pay on your behalf and wait for reinbursement. As for BACS payments we have specific people allowed to have secured access to make payments to pay wages etc. all statements for all accounts are checked by the Chairperson, Treasurer, Administrator and myself. Works well for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) As Manager I .................... work out fees, write and issue invoices,record who has paid chase up unpaid fees, set out a budget, work out staff wages, suggest any/no salary increases for year, work out/suggest any fee increases. Claim the milk money, claim the funding, pay the bills, sign cheques, Look after and manage the petty cash Collect any monies for outings/photographs etc. In fact the only thing I dont do with the money is bank it and draw it out. I also dont keep the actual books (because i dont know how!!) or do the payroll. really though our payroll must be a doddle- I work out in April what everyone's salaries will be per month for the next 12 months, so it's only if we have any overtime- which is rarely and then I am telling Treasurer what it is. We have been discussing this role recently as I have been taking on more and more of the treasurers role over recent years, however I am not prepared to do the books or keep accounts under any circumstances. I am not capable of it and am certainly not paid for it. We did have someone a few years ago who kept the books and did the payroll. She charged us £12 per hour, some months it was only 2 hours others like in March it was 4/5 hours. Quite honestly it didn't make my job any easier bit more difficult really as she was a lot stricter on doing things the "correct" way. WE are due to lose our current treasurer in July, hasn't been that great anyway, and really cant see us replacing him. I dont blame parents really, why should someone keep accounts & do the payroll for 8 staff, plus present accounts to all the relevant bodies for nothing!! We have just registered for internet banking, which I am hoping will make life a bit easier. Had to get all committee to sign to agree (well all authorised signatures) however I am the one that has access to it as we are losing the 2 committee that are authorised to sign cheques in July. I'm not very impressed with Nat West (our bank) I keep being told we dont have the type of account to set up alerts on which is what I wanted. I want to be able to pay bills whatever on line and am happy to do this but need someone else to know that I am doing it. if we set up a new payee on our business or personal account at Lloyds they text me to say someone has done this and give me a number to ring if not authorized. As our business account (my husbands) is classed as an E a/c we also have no bank charges. I am also fed up with sometimes waiting over a week to be reimbursed for something. The day we finished I paid in cheques to my a/c form work equally £700 (mainly because I wanted £500 of it for a new laptop) Or as someone else has siad, we pay through the nose for something simply because we have an account with them and it is easy. I would like a debit card but not sure how we can make this work, I am also very conscious of not leaving myself open to accusations of abusing the money. Edited June 11, 2012 by lynned55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 WE are due to lose our current treasurer in July, hasn't been that great anyway, and really cant see us replacing him. I dont blame parents really, why should someone keep accounts & do the payroll for 8 staff, plus present accounts to all the relevant bodies for nothing!! So come September who will do this?? - this is the exact same point that I am at i'm wondering if I should be doing all that you are to help....but seeing the list in writing is making me think, nope!! another reason why we are heading for the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 No idea who will do this. Part of me thinks- well this happens every year, someone will come forward and then another part of me thinks ooh no what are we going to do!! I know one thing for sure it wont be me!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiral Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 We employ an administrator to do the banking and the committee (who change yearly) are'nt really involved in any financial aspects unless we bring them to their attention. My role has changed dramatically and I am not able to spend as much time with the children, but the setting as more solvent as the administrator and I understand how funding works, what fees are due, what we can spend each month etc. This does mean extrra paperwork, which is why we employed an administrator, but she is invaluable. Previous to this, my committee did get things wrong and fees were sometimes incorrect as were wages. They also did not fully understand the law and would have broken it if they had gone ahead with proposed changes to the staff contracts. My current 'treasurer' loves his role - he said its easy, quite simply because he actually does nothing and just has the job title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 As a Day Nursery I am in the lucky position to have an administrator who works part time and does all the 'treasurer tasks' and more for me. We bank with HSBC and they have the two signature rule for cheques Bacs and direct debits but were happy for us to have a credit card with just one name on.Our local authority also does a corporate payroll service which we buy into for salaries etc - it's quite reasonable. We have just had a NEG audit and some of the things you have mentioned could be frowned upon if you were audited - one thing I didn't realise was your insurance will only cover a certain amount of cash held in the building - or if your treasurer gets bopped on the head on the way to the bank - so it's worth checking your policy! WE also have an annual external accountants summary done for companies house, external accounting is the way to go really - I know it's not cheap( ours is £500) but it's an extra safety feature for you, and helps reduce the worry of whether mistakes have been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Any guesses on who has ended up taking this on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just make sure you get paid the hours.. they need to realise you are employee not a committee member who would do it for free.. and to be honest once I was paid to do it there was much better control as we knew what we had instead of being constantly in the dark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 No money at the moment Inge, short time working and redundacncies are afoot! I am however looking forward in a (strange way) to doing it so I too will know exactly where we stand.....just not got much of a treasurers brain yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I didn't either, but once you start doing it you will find where the money really goes..it was an eye opener to us, and so much easier to know the real financial side ... once you get going you will find a bit from somewhere to ask for as extra to cover the hours needed.. I started with none and was able to get it paid eventually. ours was a different reason though as we had parents as treasurer who felt they need not pay and never paid for their own child twice in a row! never again after that I did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Any guesses on who has ended up taking this on?? No money at the moment Inge, short time working and redundacncies are afoot! I am however looking forward in a (strange way) to doing it so I too will know exactly where we stand.....just not got much of a treasurers brain yet Phew! :1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 ours was a different reason though as we had parents as treasurer who felt they need not pay and never paid for their own child twice in a row! never again after that I did it. Wow that's not good, as far as I know we've not had that, although we have had people leave before they've paid their fees, but not anymore I'm on the case! Just wondering what will give though, something will have to ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 cCan't offer any support but can say one thing for sure you are not alone out there!!! i wish i had the knowledge to take on more finacncial stuff but its not my bag, and i would not be a volunteer treasurer for all the tea in china, it is so much responsilbility. The only conclusion i have come to is there has to b a better way of running things than by committee, just not sure what!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeany Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 We did operate as a Charity and experienced all the issues you describe. Our way around this was to became a Limited Company (with charitable status) in the new constitution we added a clause that allows the Manager to be a director. This means that I can run all accounts, payments etc without seeking approval from committee. I use a company for wages they do all tax and ni, produce payslips and do end of year p35. I pay about £6 per staff member for this service. We still have two signatures on cheques but we each have a debit card for everyday expenses (lloyds). Milk claims have been mentioned a couple of times, save yourselves from one piece of paperwork and sign up to Coolmilk they do all the claims for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeytg Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Jeany I think my setting has reached the stage where we need to go to Limited Co with Charitable status would you be willing/able to share your constitution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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