Only 2 Staff In Room - What To Do If Child Needs Toilet?

[Guest]

We have an outdoor large shed that we utilise for our children when needed. 2 members of staff will take the allocated number of children to the outdoor shed that is situated in our secure play area. So lets say for example they take 8 toddlers with them to the shed to do a quite session, and 1 or more children need the toilet.. as expected. The main nursery room are also on ratio and don't really have available staff to cover the staff member who needs to walk the child back into the main room where the toilets are situated. We do normally have a manager who can cover and me in the office who could also cover.

 

What if the manager and me are unavailable at this moment when the child needs the toilet, so no cover is available.. would it be acceptable to leave 1 staff member for a few minutes with 6 or 7 toddlers, or what would you do?

[sunnyday]

I know what I would do......but I also know that someone will be along quickly to say that this is not appropriate!

 

I would take them all to the loo before going out! :1b

 

Rushing off now to dodge the bullets!

[Guest newquaypreschool]

_{I would ring Ofsted and talk to them about it. Its something all settings have difficulty with. I seem to think that their is an understanding that it is impossible for two members of staff to toilet children all the time. It is understandable that at some times adults will be on their own with children and I think that as long as the one adult on their own has no more than their ratio and that they are suitably CRB checked then its ok for very short periods of time. I would make sure you have taken all precautions to ensure the toilets are near where your room is, I think they may not accept if you have to go to a different building to get to the toilets or that they are situated quite far from where you are. You may have to do some sort of risk assesment to identify your problem and a solution and send it to Ofsted, but ring them, good luck}

Edited May 17, 2012 by newquaypreschool

[Upsy Daisy]

Wouldn't this count as one of the limited circumstances in which a member of staff can be out of the room but close by and available if necessary?

[HappyMaz]

Sunnyday, I'm liking your style. If the toilets are situated some distance from where we were playing then I'd encourage everyone to go to the loo, too!

 

Upsy Daisy, I guess this all depends on how far the toilets are away from the main room, and how long the member of staff was gone. I'm sure this is what happens in most settings though.

 

I doubt that Ofsted will be able to offer much advice - they seem very unwilling to engage in matters that require this level of guidance, preferring to state that it is the registered person's responsibility to deploy staff effectively to provide an appropriate level of supervision for all children. Although I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

Working to minimum ratios is so difficult: ideally you'd like one supernumerary person in every room so that little every day emergencies like these don't threaten the team's ability to maintain a level of care and supervision for all the children. I think it is about identifying when the likely problems are, and having contingencies in place to manage. boltonnurseries, you say that usually you and/or the manager are available to provide short-term cover, but what circumstances are likely when neither of you will be available? Perhaps if you begin by identifying these instances you can make a plan. Without knowing the layout and organisation of your setting it is difficult to make suggestions.

 

What does your staff team think? Usually the ones who have to face the potential problem are the best at coming up with the solution!

[sunnyday]

Wouldn't this count as one of the limited circumstances in which a member of staff can be out of the room but close by and available if necessary?

 

I think it almost certainly would Upsy.......but in my experience once one child decides they need to go back in to the loo another will quickly find they need to........taking them all before going out would (in my humble!) make for a more 'settled' planned activity outdoors :1b

 

Crossed posts there with Maz! :1b

Edited May 17, 2012 by sunnyday

[Stargrower]

This came up (in a slightly different way) when we were inspected last September. Our baby room has 6 babies and two members of staff and our nappy changing room is about 5 metres away from the room off a central hallway. All our rooms have open doors with gates across, so nobody is really 'alone' with children. The baby room joins the toddler room with an interconnecting door. Ofsted got their nappies in a twist (!) over this and said we were out of ratio, not deploying staff effectively, not meeting children's needs etc. when we changed nappies. They couldn't, however, provide a solution. I can't move our nappy change, I can't employ an extra member of staff to provide cover when we change nappies or a staff member needs to go to the loo, so I don't know what the answer is. When I spoke to my LA they were surprised Ofsted had an issue with this and said many, many settings were in the same situation. So I'm not sure Ofsted will provide you with a practical answer and I go with the 'take them all before you start' school of thought, although in reality as we know that doesn't always work!

Beehive

[Guest]

Thanks for all your responses, it really does help alot, and taking them all before going to the shed that is close by, just outside our main play area door, is a good solution, but i fear the toilet trips will still be needed whilst in the shed on some occasions, and hopefully on the few occasions cover is unavailable.

 

Thanks again

[Upsy Daisy]

I guess another solution would be for the staff member doing the toilet run to take enough children with her to leave the other group within ratio whether they need to use the toilet or not.

[fimbo]

in my setting we only have 2 members of staff on duty at any one time -and if we go outside for bikes etc we also have the 'loo' problem -luckily, we are able to take the child to the loo -and then stand in the doorway -so we can see both inside the room and see outside -we are also then in hearing distance if needed, not ideal - but its the only way we can do it.

we do also try and get them all to the loo before we go out, and as already mentioned -once one wants a wee.....they all need a wee !!

[louby loo]

I'm sorry................. but all I keep thinking about is the word 'shed' ::1a ::1a (totally love it though!!)

 

In my imgaination all I can see a group of children trying to do activities in my dad's shed!!!

[Guest]

haha ye it sounds bad don't it.. but it is a very large shed with electricity etc.. and the children LOVE it in there.. and if they are naughty we can just lock them in it!!! haha.. :blink:

[hopeytg]

We have a similar problem with Forest School - one member of staff brings the children back to the building for the toilet. We use walkie talkies - so the lone member of staff is at least in contact with the other staff. We were advised to do this by our early years advisor although I have not tested it with Ofsted!! - I think they would find it hard to criticise as you are acknowledging the problem and making an attempt to reduce the risk.

[finleysmaid]

We have a similar problem with Forest School - one member of staff brings the children back to the building for the toilet. We use walkie talkies - so the lone member of staff is at least in contact with the other staff. We were advised to do this by our early years advisor although I have not tested it with Ofsted!! - I think they would find it hard to criticise as you are acknowledging the problem and making an attempt to reduce the risk.

gosh don't you do picnic wee's!??? :huh:

[finleysmaid]

we used to have this problem when we went to our play area and (even though we toiletted the children before we went)there was always one. Our policy said that if they needed to go then we would all have to return to the setting(the play area was a good 10 minute walk from the pre-school) when we discussed this with ofsted they said"dont you trust your staff then?" i said of course i do ...then let them take them back on their own.....! now we have free flow in our new building it is easier as they just go in and out when they need and sort themselves out....Fantastic!

[Rafa]

 

 

I say get the kids onto it....then you can tick of problem solving, sustained shared thinking and self care all in one swipe of the highlighter pen! Tee Hee......which rhymes with Wee.....so theres another ....sorry, its late and I'm getting a bit hysterical. : )

 

I actually think we are soooo resourceful we could solve the Double Dip and the Euro crisis too!!!

[Jeany]

Our policy said that if they needed to go then we would all have to return to the setting(the play area was a good 10 minute walk from the pre-school) when we discussed this with ofsted they said"dont you trust your staff then?"

 

For me it's not about not trusting staff, it is about safeguarding the staff as well as the children. I wouldn't leave a staff member in that position. If allegations were made there would be no back up for the staff member in question.

[finleysmaid]

For me it's not about not trusting staff, it is about safeguarding the staff as well as the children. I wouldn't leave a staff member in that position. If allegations were made there would be no back up for the staff member in question.

well i think that was the point about the policy jeany...but to be honest both in school and childminding settings staff are left with children on their own all the time aren't they? All im saying is that ofsted were fine with this situation. there are always going to be times when you are alone with the children....you can't take all the staff into the loo nor should you as the children have a right to privacy too. We have checked this with the lead safeguarding tutor for our borough and she has no problem with staff being alone with children...you do of course need to know your staff well and have safe working practise enforced

[Guest]

We have 2 members of staff and the toilets are at the other end of the building, so when one child needs the toilet we take everybody and usually they all use the toilet,, we also take them before snack time to toilet them and wash hands, we usually manage with 2 'runs' in a 3 hour session and in the term before they go to school they usually are ok with one.

[Carol]

just a thought ...what happens when a childminder needs the toilet and she has to leave the children unattended for a few mins?

[Guest]

just a thought ...what happens when a childminder needs the toilet and she has to leave the children unattended for a few mins?

 

Perhaps they'll all have to start wearing Tena Lady or get cathaterised (excuse the spelling not a word I often write) as part of their training and registration

[HoneyPancakes]

just a thought ...what happens when a childminder needs the toilet and she has to leave the children unattended for a few mins?

 

I have a wee with the door open - live with it. If we're out and about I take the children into the cubicle with me and on occasions I have been known to leave the door of a public loo open so that the children and I are together. Modesty be damned - I was a new mum when I started minding, and that was what I did with my children, so that's what I do with my minded ones. It's learning.

 

When we go into the garden I have a potty which I empty on the compost heap - and we talk about the good stuff in wee that helps the scraps break down. We wash hands under the water butt tap (I know that's another argument!).

 

Honey

Edited September 9, 2012 by HoneyPancakes