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Asked Not To Use 'star' Sign When Singing Twinkle Twinkle!


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I have recently started working in a new nursery and whilst singing 'twinkle twinkle little star' and doing the actions, I was asked not to make the star sign (using thumb and forefinger) when I asked why ever not was told it is the signing language for gay and we were not allowed to use it in the setting.

 

I have been in childcare for over 10 years and probably made that sign at least once a day for those 10 years, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

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I have recently started working in a new nursery and whilst singing 'twinkle twinkle little star' and doing the actions, I was asked not to make the star sign (using thumb and forefinger) when I asked why ever not was told it is the signing language for gay and we were not allowed to use it in the setting.

 

I have been in childcare for over 10 years and probably made that sign at least once a day for those 10 years, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

 

Well I have heard that it's the sign for 'lady parts' - to sure whether this is true or just an urban myth though.

 

xxx

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I've never seen that used to mean gay, it's always meant star to me and that's what we use at school. If I remember rightly (but it's a good few years since I did my BSL course) gay is left hand palm up with right hand thumbs up sitting on it and it sort of rocks from side to side. Maybe you should ask them where they got this from. Is it maybe american sign language or something? Or is it just a mistake that's been passed on?! Maybe google will have the answer...

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We draw a star in the air anyway as they were not making a star shape really with fingers - just the adults! children were doing 'goggles' and all kinds, so we wanted to illustrate the shape more. Actually, I can's actually say that either is really a 'star shape', more like a kite!

 

Quick edit to say that (thank you Panders) it's the DIAMOND bit, not the star bit - DUH

Edited by Cait
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We draw a star in the air anyway as they were not making a star shape really with fingers - just the adults! children were doing 'goggles' and all kinds, so we wanted to illustrate the shape more. Actually, I can's actually say that either is really a 'star shape', more like a kite!

 

 

we use that to denote the diamond in the song like a diamond in the sky

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we use that to denote the diamond in the song like a diamond in the sky

 

Oh is that what footy chick meant? I thought she meant the BSL sign for star where you tap your fingers together in the air like a twinkley star... that's what we use at my school.

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Quick edit to say that (thank you Panders) it's the DIAMOND bit, not the star bit - DUH

 

Ah right! I was getting confused... doesn't take much! :D

 

...but hang on a minute, does that mean that footy chick's colleague thinks the star sign means gay or the diamond sign that isn't a diamond sign but a lady parts sign????

Edited by Guest
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I was told it depended where you made sign to what it meant! Up in air was not 'lady's bits'

korkycat

I don't think it matters whether you make it up in the air or not, but I could be wrong. And I often am!

 

I was told that it is where the thumbs are that is important. If you make the diamond shape with your thumbs underneath your index fingers, it is ok for 'diamond in the sky'. However if you make a similar shape with your thumbs above your index fingers (with a shape a bit more like a triangle than a diamond) then it looks more like 'lady parts'. Which would be a different type of song entirely.

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Guest tinkerbell

I am so sorry I can't stop laughing, what a lot of nonsense what on earth is the world coming too? :o:(xD:(

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I am so sorry I can't stop laughing, what a lot of nonsense what on earth is the world coming too? xD:(:(:(

Well in a society when some individuals and groups feel the need to sing 'baa baa rainbow sheep' for fear of causing offence, I'd say you probably know the answer to that one tinkerbell! :o

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Never seen rainbow sheep and took photos of black sheep - advisor loved it! as for twinkle well, people have been singing and using that symbol before anyone else used it to symolise it in their meaning - but world has become mad, i agree.

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I'm sure if a deaf person happened to come and watch a performance of small children singing this song they would appreciate that the sign was not meant to refer to ladyparts at all and would understand. Most BSL signs are context dependent anyway and also it does have to be fingers down (rather than thumbs down) in order to refer to ladyparts.

 

On the other hand whilst it seems excessive to say "it's banned" (why not just ask people to ensure they do it thumbs downwards?) I can see why if you know its real meaning it seems a bit odd to continue using it. I think if a scenario occured where a deaf person watched the song being sung with this sign and then went to a practitioner and said "do you know what that means?" (I'm thinking in a friendly banter sort of way here) and the practitioner said "yes" that would seem a bit strange. Why use it if you know what it means and there is an alternative?

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Why use it if you know what it means and there is an alternative?

 

I have to agree with Kariana on this one. Colleagues went on a signing course some years ago and were told about this. We felt it was not difficult to change and it now seems second nature.

 

We just do twinkle twinkle as normal then when it comes to 'little star', we raise one hand and open out all fingers on one hand, then for 'like a diamond' we close our fingers over our ring on our ring finger, luckily mines a diamond when I remember to put it on, then open out as if to show lustre or sparkle - I believe that is the sign language for diamond though I could be wrong!

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I have to agree with Kariana on this one. Colleagues went on a signing course some years ago and were told about this. We felt it was not difficult to change and it now seems second nature.

 

We just do twinkle twinkle as normal then when it comes to 'little star', we raise one hand and open out all fingers on one hand, then for 'like a diamond' we close our fingers over our ring on our ring finger, luckily mines a diamond when I remember to put it on, then open out as if to show lustre or sparkle - I believe that is the sign language for diamond though I could be wrong!

 

We often have a few children in the setting who use Makaton or BSL or Sign Language of a different language, so once we realised that the sign we had been using for a diamond meant 'ladybits', we use the makaton symbol for diamond - as Deb said, closed fingers over ring finger, opening to sparkle.

 

I'd rather tell new staff/students/volunteers/the occasional parent who stays for singing why we use that sign rather than the thumb & forefingers together sign, than explain to an offended parent why we're teaching their child the wrong sign...

 

We currently have 4 parents/carers who are partially hearing & use BSL, 5 children who use some Makaton for communication, and at least one other child whose parents have chosen to use signs with them.

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I was interested to see everyone's responses, I was referring to the diamond in the sky (confuse myself most of the time!) I have always placed my forefingers and thumbs together (thumbs down) to create a star, I was taught it as a little girl and always done it since, the hardest thing is not doing it, when you have done it for nearly 40 years its a hard habit to break!!!

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Guest Spiral

We've had deaf parents before and they were fine about us doing twinkle twinkle.

 

I wonder what the Welsh farming community thinks about Baa Baa Black Sheep - I know what they think about Baa Baa Light Sheep;

 

 

Please don't be offended about the title, it's totally their doing!

Spiral :-)

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Hi all

 

 

I have checked with my son is working with deaf children and adults. The diamond can mean lady bits but it needs to be positioned over your lady bits....if you get my drift. It is not the sign for gay either. I showed him this forum and he laughed about how a diamond shape was the cause for a link

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Guest Spiral

fantastic,

 

a true sense of being down to earth prevails.

 

I'm off to watch those light up sheep again, I'll sing while I do;....................... hmmm, I know the song to sing now;

 

they're coming to take me away ha ha, ho, ho, hee hee!!!

 

Spiral :o

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