In Need Of Support

[JacquieL]

Lots of hugs from me this morning PPP as it sounds to me as if you are being treated appallingly. As you know we are all here to offer you support, so don't be afraid to come on and vent if you need to. ((((PPP))))

[Gezabel]

just sending more hugs and tlc and hoping it wasn't tooo bad for you.

Will be thinking of you and be logging on any computer I can get near during the day to see if there is any news

[Guest]

Hello

 

Thank you. I was too upset last night to update you. Well, this is what happened.

 

- ppp isn't doing her job properly

- complaints have been made about me

- staff want committee at staff meetings because if they aren't' there staff don't want to turn up

- I create an atmousphere and parents have commented on it

- I undermine the staff

- I don't thank or value the staff

- I snap at them and am rude

- "You ARE going on a management course next year"

- Your performance will be reviewed in 6 months time

- We are taking responsibilities away from you

- I am not to contact committee or staff out of business hours

- Staff are looking for other jobs

- I am rude to parents when informing them about their child's behaviour

- I make the staff very unhappy

 

I was shouted at, I was accused of being unprofessional....oh and I could be the reason that are numbers are low next year.

 

It goes on....

 

 

 

Well.............I am not a strong person and I am not very good at thinking on the spot. I couldn't get a word in!

 

They then calmed down a little and the meeting turned into me apologising for coming across as rude - after all I'd just been told that I make my staff very unhappy!

I said it was a lot to take in. They then set targets for me.

 

Oh and BBIC and possibly PATA know about what the committee were going to do as they got advice - ahem Committee's story ahem.

 

None of you know me, so yes this is just my side but if you did meet me and see what I'm like - you'll understand that this has absolutely crushed me

 

Well, I dragged myself into work this morning, my two members of staff very concerned for me, asked me what was wrong - at this point I thought I'd caused them misery so apologised to which I find.......... staff comments were twisted - wrung out! One member of staff refused to fill in the questionnaire and my deputy put nice things about me. My deputy tells me I wasn't rude to her and I didn't snap at her- she is furious with the committee. Nearly everything was twisted and elaborated. So now I'm angry.

 

They hounded me, they bullied me and chair had the gall (sp) to come up to me this morning and ask if I was alright!!!!! "Not really, I said".

 

Well, I made it through today, yey me! (I shed a little tear in my car at lunchtime though). But I can't fight it, I can't deal with any more meetings with them. I was wrong to tell my deputy about the meeting but I learnt a lot. But then again, I don't know who to trust any more.

 

3 weeks left then a lovely summer ahead of me. But then comes September where "things WILL change".

 

Thank you everyone.

 

Sorry for such a long message.

 

love you all

 

ppp

 

(I am 'little ppp' - wouldn't say boo to a goose (maybe a chicken though!), wouldn't purposefully offend someone or be rude, she loves jumping around and making people smile, she sings and dances, does impressions and makes people laugh - she only wants to be happy)

[Guest]

really feel for you. Big hug from us all on this site.

Sarah

[redjayne]

My goodness how on earth can they get away with throwing all that at you with no warning and you having no support, and if the staff had issues with you ( which it sounds as if some of them at least haven't really) why did they feel they couldn't come and discuss it with you - or your deputy? Sounds to me as if someone is stirring for some reason and wants you gone - maybe they have another lined up for your job ( family member maybe ? ) I suggest you record all that was said whilst it's still fresh, give your response to all the alleagations to the committee, and discuss with your staff what they feel may need to be changed ( if anything) get them to sign YOUR copy of the actions and pass that to the committee as well.

Big Hugs , am sure it will sort one way or another, but don't take it lying down!

[Cait]

I really don't know what to say to all this, I'm absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could treat anyone like this. How many of them were there, 'getting at you'. Are there any of them who will be going this July/September. If your staff really are 'with you', perhaps you could ask for a further meeting, with just the Chair, with your staff present as well so there's more of 'you' than 'them' this time, to give you the opportunity to 'answer the charges'.

 

I'd be absolutely gutted if this happened to me, so I can only offer you my sympathy and virtual hugs and support

[sunnyday]

Oh PPP - how completely awful for you

 

I am angry on your behalf..........how DARE they treat you/talk to you in this way........

 

Wish I knew a bit more about Committee run groups so that I could give some decent advice........

[Rea]

Oh PPP you need to have a long hard think about things.

Take each point they made and evaluate it as honestly as you can to yourself. I'm not suggesting you are in the wrong, but sometimes we dont see what other people see. Since leaving playgroup I can see that I was a weak leader, I didnt like confrontation and it lead to bad feeling amongst 2 staff, I have since appologised to 2 other members I didnt support enough, but hindsight as they say...

I'm not sure what else you can do. If committee are always at staff meetings and you're not allowed to contact staff out of hours, you're not going to be able to speak to them about their issues. You could go to your GP and get him to sign you off work with stress, that might make people think about their actions, or you can carry on working and look for another job.

Or you can wait and see. Not very pro-active but something will develop one way or the other.

I'd be inclinded to work to rule and get the committee to check all my work!! But I am a terrible enemy to have if I get a bee in my bonnet!

 

Personaly I'd be more tempted to write an open letter to staff and parents, I'd say "it has been brought to my attention that I have caused an uncomfortable atmosphere, the way in which this has been done is unknown to me but I can honestly say it was never my intention to cause upset. I have always been committed to the setting, giving up my free time to ensure all aspects of the management side were covered and most importantly, that the children's time with us was happy and fulfilling. The committee have kindly removed some of the responsibilities I have shouldered, recognising that some of the work I do is officially in their domain, this will allow me more time to share in the staff roles and get back to playing with the children. Please feel free to approach me at any time with concerns or comments. I can assure you I will maintain confidentaility at all times." Yours PPP

 

You can take that as tongue in cheek if you want, but I did something similar to that a few years ago after a disastrous summer fete meeting at which a parent used it to fire every missile in her arsenal at me and my staff after talking to the secretary about planning. The committee listened, nodding and agreeing with her! I was so cross!! No-one ever mentioned the meeting or the letter afterwards and we were left to get on with what we were doing.

 

I hope you manage to find some way forward, I'm sure with a supportive deputy things will pan out. Dont be too disheartened next week. Go in, sit on the floor and play.

[suebear]

good grief. My heart goes out to you. Are you in a union?

[SueJ]

Oh P3 Am so sorry to hear of your traumatic time. I once ran a committee group for a church and when the vicar left it all went v. sour as I asked them for support for all the little committee jobs I had taken on as each committee member left and no one else wanted to do the jobs. In the end I could stand it no more and left and have never been happier. Too many times these people with no experience in the field but plenty of opinions sit on the sidelines and snipe. Perhaps you could suggest that you have been so crushed by the meeting you need in session support so that they can "model" the correct methods of doing things where they perceive that you are "going wrong" and then if I were you I sit back and watch these so called experts - I suspect that after a v. short while they would be floundering.

 

For me the only way was out as I was not prepared to tolerate these little people with their little minds and I now run my own group with a loyal and fab. staff team where we have an open dialogue with no hidden agendas.

 

Hope all goes well for you and remember you are a star xxxx

[louby loo]

Never having worked for a committee as such not really sure what to add.

Just wanted to send (((((xxx))))))

I have had to work in a seriously bad atmosphere once though- and that was **ll on earth.

 

xxx

[HappyMaz]

Perhaps you could suggest that you have been so crushed by the meeting you need in session support so that they can "model" the correct methods of doing things where they perceive that you are "going wrong" and then if I were you I sit back and watch these so called experts - I suspect that after a v. short while they would be floundering.

That is pure genius, SueJ!

 

Chin up P³. You're worth more than the lot of them put together.

 

Maz

[Guest]

I know I have been treated unfairly but I just don't know what to do.

 

Thank you for all your replies

Answer to some questions:

 

I'm not in a union

I am not allowed to see the questionnaires

2 were getting at me and 1 was writing minutes - can't wait to see those!

 

 

Thank you for the hugs

 

Does anyone fancy marching down/up to Gloucestershire with their burning torches and copies of EYFS in hands?

 

Oh and btw - does anyone know if it is a legal Ofsted requirement that a deputy has to have the opportunity to frequently lead sessions on their own?

[HappyMaz]

Oh and btw - does anyone know if it is a legal Ofsted requirement that a deputy has to have the opportunity to frequently lead sessions on their own?

Not that I'm aware of. I certainly wasn't asked about it this week during our inspection. I'd seriously question why you're not allowed to see the questionnaires - as a charity doesn't your group fulfil the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act?

 

Keep plugging on P³.

 

Maz

[Lorna]

PPP- hugs to you... what a horrible thing to happen..

I would join a union ASAP... they will back you from the time you join and may even give you advice over what has already happened.

Try and relax this weekend

[HappyMaz]

I would ring ACAS for advice urgently. You deserve so much better than this P³.

 

Mx

[dreamgirl]

My goodness. Have just read all these posts. What a nightmare. I expect you feel torn between fighting them with both barrels and just saying Up yours and going somewhere else where you will be appreciated. Poor you. Is it all worth it? It is meant to be a job. after all, even though we all care about our work enormously. Pigs. Cowards. Pour a big drink, dig deep and hang on to the truth. thinking of you xxx

[caro]

Burning torches at the ready here in Gloucestershire! Because whether you are innocent or guilty of all the things raised at the meeting you deserve a fair process. I loved Rea's letter (thank goodness she's on your side!) and think you should speak to ACAS, PATA and BBIC as even if they have advised the committee they should also be there for you. I know BBIC have human resources specialists on the team so use them. Have the committee done any of the training? Just wondered.

Can't remember who advised this but keeping a diary of when you were given the questionnaire, told of the meeting, who was present, when you received the minutes etc is really important with as much detail as you can manage.

And finally big hugs and a large glass of wine

 

Caro

[Fredbear]

Hi hun i thought committee run preschools were there to enhance the education and care of children and families in your community. Well i don't see much of that going on here, and they dont seem to care about you or your feelings.

Yes you may need to look at some of the questions put to you to see if they have a valid point, and have the opportunity to discuss this together with your staff and any issues raised. Maybe a daily ten minutes at the end of each session with your team may give you a chance to do this.

Love the suggestion sent to you regarding role modelling, lets see them come in and do the job you do, probably won't last five minutes.

keep your chin up and come on here if your feeling blue or to tell us all how its all going.

[ hope things get better soon]

big hugs

x

[JacquieL]

I really think you need some support with this. ACAS is probably the best bet as you are not in a union. I don't know a lot about the way settings like yours run but I do know that from what you have told us due process has not been followed. This could possibly lead to you making a claim of constructive dismissal, amongst other things. They have also gone behind your back which I find unbelievable!

All I have really are lots of questions such as: What support do you get from the LA? Have you contacted them for support now? What form did this meetings take? Was it a performance management meeting? Do you have PM and a policy, and who does it? Have they set you targets previously to this? Do they have grievance and disciplinary procedures in place? If so do they meet the legal requirements? Are they following their part to the letter? Was this meeting attended by all the Committee? That in itself could be a problem for them if you took out a grievance, as who would hear it if they all know about what's happened? How many questionnaires were sent out? How many were returned and what were the proportion of any complaints in relation to the number of families? Why can't you see them as you have every right to do so? What training have the Management Committee had in Employment Law and practice. Were there any informal discussions prior to the action they have taken now? Are they drawing up an action plan with success criteria and time-scales? How are they managing staff relationships now? What are they doing to support you as part of their duty of care?

You have been treated very unfairly and I know that you will be feeling vulnerable at the moment, so get some support and advice asap.

Lots of good wishes and hugs

Jacquiex

[Cait]

Jacquie that seems a very rational and well thought out reply - PPP writes al your points down and answers them, then I feel sure she'll be in a good position to deal with this with her contact with ACAS and/or her LA

[Guest]

PPP this sounds like an awful situation. Please don't let them get away with it, you might think that struggling on till the end of the summer is the way to go, but what sort of summer will you have if you're spending all your time fretting about this? Please don't put yourself in that position! Get on to someone who can offer advice and talk to the members of staff during a session to get their true views. I'm sure you legally you have a right to see the questionnaires so get onto them and make them show you them. Also set up a meeting with the committee and the staff members if possible so that there is no chance of messages being 'twisted' by anyone.

 

Oh and btw - does anyone know if it is a legal Ofsted requirement that a deputy has to have the opportunity to frequently lead sessions on their own?

 

I would say definitely not. The head person (manager/supervisor, I always get confused about what they are called in different types of pre-school?) is there to run sessions, the deputy is there to support, which is why they are called the deputy in the first place!

[Guest]

Thanks Karina. Well I know it is not in the welfare requirements and surely if it was an Ofsted legal requirement it would be in there?

They looked very smug when they told me this

 

After all, it's not a requirement to have a 'deputy' - we went through our inspection without one.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Guest

[Guest jenpercy]

Thanks Karina. Well I know it is not in the welfare requirements and surely if it was an Ofsted legal requirement it would be in there?

They looked very smug when they told me this

 

After all, it's not a requirement to have a 'deputy' - we went through our inspection without one.

 

Gosh I have had OFSTEDs where they have demanded that I get in a Deputy - and I know someone who has had OFSTED action because although everyone knew who her Deputy was, she didn't have that title.

 

Whoops - thread hijack, Sorry!!

[trekker]

Hi

I have read this post with horror and a little anxiety because I feel that the situation I'm in at the moment is going along a similar line...several of the comments you faced reflect what I've been told or what I feel myself about my role as 'supervisor' in a preschool.

 

I'm used to a small team but due to expansion I have got new staff in post who double the amount we had. I am now being told that staff are not happy.

I am not by any stretch of the imagination a natural leader / manager..I struggle a lot with fitting into this role and I often wonder whether I should be in this role (which I kind of 'adopted' many years ago out of necessity.)

I love what I do, I love being with the children but I find that I have no time to manage or lead (or to think much about how to go about it!) and it stresses me out knowing that I need to do it, want to be able to do it but cant do it because of the lack of time, opportunity to put strategies in place (....I barely have time to talk to anyone in the session - certainly not for any length of time...I am so focused on the children) and the biggest of all - lack of confidence.

Thankfully my chair has taken the time to come to me with the 'vibes' and shed some light on the 'atmosphere' and also is being very good about discussing ways of dealing with it. They can also see that not all staff are pulling their weight but I worry that if I cant make things right pretty soon the chair won't remain quite so understanding.

I know its down to me but I just don't know how to deal with it without giving in and saying Okay - so get a real manager in then!

 

So I totally empathise with you PPP and the stress you must be going through.... this approach seems all wrong - you definitely need advice and need to make it clear they are in the wrong and need to support you not pull you down!

It should not be about blame and making it personal like they have - a meeting like that should have focused on problem solving, working together - highlighting what needs to change but not putting all the responsibility on you!. This is a hard job we do with no time or space or support to do it properly...nothing like a 'normal management role' at all.

I hope it all works out for you.

[Guest jenpercy]

Trekker, please make this into new thread to discuss management. Would love to discuss this further, but it would take over this thread, which would be nfair onPPP

[HoneyPancakes]

My Sainted Mum would have said, 'Keep Calm, Don't burn any bridges, and Things will change', Things aren't always as they appear.

 

It seems to me that there is another agenda here. I don't think this is all about you. Maybe it's the committee looking for a scapegoat for low numbers. Maybe it's other staff looking to improve their employment prospects.

 

Rise to the challenge, take that Management Course and thank them for it.

 

All strength to you, You'll need it but it will be worth it in the long run.

 

Fe

[HappyMaz]

take that Management Course and thank them for it.

Good advice here about the management course - this would have two benefits. First it would give your deputy some experience of running things, as the committee want. Second I'd be prepare to place a small bet that the techniques you learn will directly contradict the methods your committee have used in managing this whole sorry episode. You might even consider writing a little 'how to manage' manual for them to use to improve their managerial practice in the future!

 

Maz

[Cait]

haha - good one Maz!

[Guest]

I am reluctant to give in to them as their targets and recommendations for my practice have been based on lies.

 

I would be grateful if someone could let me know if a sentence in some guidance exists that says something like 'a level 3 needs to step up to lead sessions if manager isn't present- can be known as a deputy'. I'm sure I have read it somewhere and it's been discussed on here but I can't find it anywhere.

 

Thank you

ppp