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Xmas Party And Insurance


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just had a thought this has not happened before. we are registered for 40 children but for our xmas party we will probably exceed this hopefully by just a few. are we ok to do this and will our insurance cover us we are with morton michel. cannot find any info.

 

thanks i am sure someone will give me the answer.

 

buttercup

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That is such an interesting question - I too am insured with Morton Michel - I can't think that we actually tell them how many children we are registered for......can't think....all my 'stuff' is at work - sorry......

 

Parents attend our Christmas Party so I have never thought about - hmmm...maybe I need to.........

 

Well that wasn't very helpful was it - sorry

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What do Ofsted say about going over numbers for a Christmas party? Will you have parents present so that they are still responsible for the children?

 

I would imagine that going over your registered numbers invalidates your insurance. I wouldn't want to go ahead without speaking to Morton Michel direct.

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Just had a look in their Insurance for pre-schools and playgroups policy document, under general conditions it says:-

 

Registration

 

It is a condition precedent to liability that the Group insured by this Policy shall be registered with the appropriate Registering Authority where applicable and all terms of such registration shall be complied with at all times.

 

Could be if you break your registration rules it would allow your insurer to have a get out!

 

You can get Ofsted to allow and exception to your registration, I did last summer when I thought I would be just one over my registered number for a few weeks.

 

I rang Ofsted, spoke to my Ofsted Inspector answered a few questions about how we would keep all the children safe during this time etc. and it was agreed over the phone and a new certificate arrived within days with the extra number on it. If you can prove that the children's safety will not be compromised you should be fine.

 

If in any doubt- do as Sunnyday has and get the parents in too - that would be a lot of "bodies" for you though!!!

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We have our party during a normal session and ask 'extra' children to make a small contibution (to be fair on the ones for which it is a normal session) we also request that extras parents stay with their child

 

Not sure if this is PC or not though!

 

xxx

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We are insured via PSLA and when I rang them with a query about something (cannot remember what) they said 'as long as you are not breaking the terms of your registration, you can do so' So I think if you are registered for 40 children and you have 41 children in, then you are breaking the terms of your registration and give your insurance a get out and we all know how much insurance companies lurve a get out!!

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This is an interesting topic.

 

We are registered for 26 children per session, but on a party day we would have 5 members of staff in, which means that we could have far more than 26 children in and still be ok for the ratios.

 

But we would have more children on the premises than we were registered for, regardless of whether their parents were there or not.

 

So am confused now. Is it just simply we are not allowed more children than we are registered for, or if we are over ratio?

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If you go to a school fund raiser, a children's indoor play area - the adults there are very unlikely to have a CRB check, so I feel I should be able to invite parents into pre-school on the same basis at a party, not to work as a volunteer - that would require a CRB, but as a parent there to take responsiblity for their child and their child alone.

 

 

I read the insurance guidelines to mean if your registration certificate says you may not look after more than 20 children - then you would break your registration rules to have more than that number in.

 

This sounds like a very grey area and something we all do at party times of the year but sadly if the worst happened I suspect our insurers would have a "get out clause" waiting!

 

We need to ask our insurers where we really stand and dare I say it Mrs. O as well.

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Guest babyjane31

we get around this by hiring a hall and inviting everyone including parents, we have an entertainer and also provide food and as all parents attend it is a really good social event and as we are not actually carinf for any of the children nothing o do with insurance company or OFSTED. We have done this for the past few years without any problems and have checked with ofsted and PLA, party is paid for out of fundraising money or donations.

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Well I am deeply envious of those of you who have a problem in that you exceed numbers on party day!

 

We have our end of term celebration and invite parents to attend with their children. None of these parents will be CRB checked and we ensure that they do not have unsupervised access to children.

 

Maz

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I think that I had not been clear enough in my other posts (So what's new!)

 

For our Christmas Party:

 

Parents/carers accompany their children and are wholly responsible for them

 

No charge is made for the party.........it is an 'extra'....so I feel that we facilitate/organise the party....but as we are not receiving payment for the children it is not part of pre-school and that therefore Ofsted, Insurance do not really play a part.......

 

Now I'm thinking.....am I just being really niave here.......not sure......

 

Surely if parents are there and we are not receiving any payment - it is no different to a parent organising a child's birthday party in a hall - is it?

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That is very clear Sunnyday - end of term party at my pre-school however, has always been on the last day of each term - therefore, I am in receipt of payment from KCC - I do not charge for children who would not normally attend on a Friday, and I don't charge for any entertainment, food etc., obviously staff are still paid, parents haven't in the past attended and I may have been up to 3 children over my registered number but adult;child ratios have not been compromised.

 

I do really need to check with insurers and if there is a problem, change the format

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I do really need to check with insurers and if there is a problem, change the format

 

Thanks Panders - will be interested to know what they have to say........the 'Devils in the detail' and all that! :o

 

Our last day of term is Friday 12th and then we have the party 11:15 - 1:15 on Monday 14th .....we are so very lucky that this is funded by a very generous donation from our 'village fund' - basically - this is money from a huge village event - a 'fair' - grants are awarded to all village organisations...........has always slightly 'worried' me that I am one of the Trustees for this fund - so I keep very detailed accounts to show how I have spent the money!!! xD

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Just to throw another spanner in the works, it's not always just about ratios. it can also be amount of space per child? Although I really dont know what that is.

On page 35 of the EYFS Statutory Framework (May 2008) it says:-

 

"In registered provision, providers must meet the following space requirements:

 

■■ children under two years: 3.5 m2 per child;

 

■■ two year olds: 2.5 m2 per child;

 

■■ children aged three to five years: 2.3 m2 per child."

 

Maz

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Is the answer to write to both Ofsted and your insurers detailing how you would like to organise your party, how many children could be present, how many staff would be there and whether parents would be attending, who, if anyone would be charged, etc and asking for their confirmation that it is acceptable to them in that format?

 

I would then only go ahead with the party when I had confirmation in writing that the format was acceptable to Ofsted and would be covered by insurance. Knowing Ofsted they would probably give different settings different answers but, if you have it in writing, that won't be a problem.

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Just come off of 'phone with Morton Michel and as long as the event is within the normal range of activities at a pre-school during normal operating hours then the insurance would still be valid even if you were a few chidren over your certificated number.

 

An exception to this would be, say, a summer fair, where members of the public would be invited, there would be a bouncy castle etc. then the insurer needs to know and extra insurance can be taken out for that event.

Edited by Panders
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Just come off of 'phone with Morton Michel and as long as the event is within the normal range of activities at a pre-school during normal operating hours then the insurance would still be valid even if you were a few chidren over your certificated number.

So that just leaves Ofsted then - although I'm guessing what their stock reply might be. Will you be applying for a temporary change of registration to go over numbers on party day?

 

Maz

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i would agree but what if something goes wrong they would be checking numbers. we have go 45 children to invite and are registered for 40. yes we will have enough staff to cover so ratios no problem. i would hope ofsted would be ok as it is a one off. perhaps best not to disturb them and just enjoy. thats what we did years ago no problems then

 

buttercup

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Never thought to ring Ofsted and ask them, never thought to ring insurance and ask them either. In fact I wish it hadn't now. We have happily done this format for years. Some years (long time ago) having as many as 18/20 children over our 25 limit. We do invite parents in to watch the Natvity & sing Xmas Carols, wonder if this counts. I suppose though that if you are charging a fee for the morning (and ours always falls on a normal session) then the children are your responsibility? Hmmm we will only be over by 2/3 this year so what to do now.........................

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We are registered for 26 children per session, we are having a christmas party for 40 and will have 6 members of staff and five duty parents on the day, we phoned Ofsted who said it will be fine for 2hours, all we have to do is risk assess the party and ensure our insurance covers the extra children, this we have done.

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