Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I have recently started working in a new nursery and whilst singing 'twinkle twinkle little star' and doing the actions, I was asked not to make the star sign (using thumb and forefinger) when I asked why ever not was told it is the signing language for gay and we were not allowed to use it in the setting. I have been in childcare for over 10 years and probably made that sign at least once a day for those 10 years, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I have recently started working in a new nursery and whilst singing 'twinkle twinkle little star' and doing the actions, I was asked not to make the star sign (using thumb and forefinger) when I asked why ever not was told it is the signing language for gay and we were not allowed to use it in the setting. I have been in childcare for over 10 years and probably made that sign at least once a day for those 10 years, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before? Well I have heard that it's the sign for 'lady parts' - to sure whether this is true or just an urban myth though. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I've never seen that used to mean gay, it's always meant star to me and that's what we use at school. If I remember rightly (but it's a good few years since I did my BSL course) gay is left hand palm up with right hand thumbs up sitting on it and it sort of rocks from side to side. Maybe you should ask them where they got this from. Is it maybe american sign language or something? Or is it just a mistake that's been passed on?! Maybe google will have the answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Yay for google! And woohoo for my memory, it's amazing the things that stick in your head isn't it?! http://www.britishsignlanguage.com/words/index.php?id=345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Well I have heard that it's the sign for 'lady parts' - to sure whether this is true or just an urban myth though. xxx Yep - me too! Think that was on here can't say it's stopped me using it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I've goggled it and it is the sign for 'lady parts' but I still feel this is ridiculous and over the top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) We draw a star in the air anyway as they were not making a star shape really with fingers - just the adults! children were doing 'goggles' and all kinds, so we wanted to illustrate the shape more. Actually, I can's actually say that either is really a 'star shape', more like a kite! Quick edit to say that (thank you Panders) it's the DIAMOND bit, not the star bit - DUH Edited April 6, 2011 by Cait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 We have had this conversation before so its nothing new. have a look here to see members responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 star in makaton in an open palm fingers splayed up in the air sign! if that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 We draw a star in the air anyway as they were not making a star shape really with fingers - just the adults! children were doing 'goggles' and all kinds, so we wanted to illustrate the shape more. Actually, I can's actually say that either is really a 'star shape', more like a kite! we use that to denote the diamond in the song like a diamond in the sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 whoops panders! That's what I meant! silly me! The twinkle twinkle bit is just nipping fingertips together in the air isn't it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 we use that to denote the diamond in the song like a diamond in the sky Oh is that what footy chick meant? I thought she meant the BSL sign for star where you tap your fingers together in the air like a twinkley star... that's what we use at my school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) Quick edit to say that (thank you Panders) it's the DIAMOND bit, not the star bit - DUH Ah right! I was getting confused... doesn't take much! ...but hang on a minute, does that mean that footy chick's colleague thinks the star sign means gay or the diamond sign that isn't a diamond sign but a lady parts sign???? Edited April 6, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 i think the conclusion last time was the diamond sign was lady bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 i think the conclusion last time was the diamond sign was lady bits Yes, but upside down when compared with the traditional diamond sign made for twinkle twinkle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 the world's gone mad!!!! :wacko: :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korkycat Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I was told it depended where you made sign to what it meant! Up in air was not 'lady's bits' korkycat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I was told it depended where you made sign to what it meant! Up in air was not 'lady's bits'korkycat I don't think it matters whether you make it up in the air or not, but I could be wrong. And I often am! I was told that it is where the thumbs are that is important. If you make the diamond shape with your thumbs underneath your index fingers, it is ok for 'diamond in the sky'. However if you make a similar shape with your thumbs above your index fingers (with a shape a bit more like a triangle than a diamond) then it looks more like 'lady parts'. Which would be a different type of song entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tinkerbell Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I am so sorry I can't stop laughing, what a lot of nonsense what on earth is the world coming too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I am so sorry I can't stop laughing, what a lot of nonsense what on earth is the world coming too? Well in a society when some individuals and groups feel the need to sing 'baa baa rainbow sheep' for fear of causing offence, I'd say you probably know the answer to that one tinkerbell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauvink Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Never seen rainbow sheep and took photos of black sheep - advisor loved it! as for twinkle well, people have been singing and using that symbol before anyone else used it to symolise it in their meaning - but world has become mad, i agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm sure if a deaf person happened to come and watch a performance of small children singing this song they would appreciate that the sign was not meant to refer to ladyparts at all and would understand. Most BSL signs are context dependent anyway and also it does have to be fingers down (rather than thumbs down) in order to refer to ladyparts. On the other hand whilst it seems excessive to say "it's banned" (why not just ask people to ensure they do it thumbs downwards?) I can see why if you know its real meaning it seems a bit odd to continue using it. I think if a scenario occured where a deaf person watched the song being sung with this sign and then went to a practitioner and said "do you know what that means?" (I'm thinking in a friendly banter sort of way here) and the practitioner said "yes" that would seem a bit strange. Why use it if you know what it means and there is an alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Why use it if you know what it means and there is an alternative? I have to agree with Kariana on this one. Colleagues went on a signing course some years ago and were told about this. We felt it was not difficult to change and it now seems second nature. We just do twinkle twinkle as normal then when it comes to 'little star', we raise one hand and open out all fingers on one hand, then for 'like a diamond' we close our fingers over our ring on our ring finger, luckily mines a diamond when I remember to put it on, then open out as if to show lustre or sparkle - I believe that is the sign language for diamond though I could be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanne Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I have to agree with Kariana on this one. Colleagues went on a signing course some years ago and were told about this. We felt it was not difficult to change and it now seems second nature. We just do twinkle twinkle as normal then when it comes to 'little star', we raise one hand and open out all fingers on one hand, then for 'like a diamond' we close our fingers over our ring on our ring finger, luckily mines a diamond when I remember to put it on, then open out as if to show lustre or sparkle - I believe that is the sign language for diamond though I could be wrong! We often have a few children in the setting who use Makaton or BSL or Sign Language of a different language, so once we realised that the sign we had been using for a diamond meant 'ladybits', we use the makaton symbol for diamond - as Deb said, closed fingers over ring finger, opening to sparkle. I'd rather tell new staff/students/volunteers/the occasional parent who stays for singing why we use that sign rather than the thumb & forefingers together sign, than explain to an offended parent why we're teaching their child the wrong sign... We currently have 4 parents/carers who are partially hearing & use BSL, 5 children who use some Makaton for communication, and at least one other child whose parents have chosen to use signs with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I was interested to see everyone's responses, I was referring to the diamond in the sky (confuse myself most of the time!) I have always placed my forefingers and thumbs together (thumbs down) to create a star, I was taught it as a little girl and always done it since, the hardest thing is not doing it, when you have done it for nearly 40 years its a hard habit to break!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiral Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 We've had deaf parents before and they were fine about us doing twinkle twinkle. I wonder what the Welsh farming community thinks about Baa Baa Black Sheep - I know what they think about Baa Baa Light Sheep; Please don't be offended about the title, it's totally their doing! Spiral :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hi all I have checked with my son is working with deaf children and adults. The diamond can mean lady bits but it needs to be positioned over your lady bits....if you get my drift. It is not the sign for gay either. I showed him this forum and he laughed about how a diamond shape was the cause for a link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiral Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 fantastic, a true sense of being down to earth prevails. I'm off to watch those light up sheep again, I'll sing while I do;....................... hmmm, I know the song to sing now; they're coming to take me away ha ha, ho, ho, hee hee!!! Spiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauvink Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Spiral Loved the you tube link - thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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