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#1 Rea

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:55 AM

https://www.netmums....hildcare-scheme

 

I dont follow things as closely as I could/should, but I was under the impression the SFF would be rolled out and according to some sources some of us would be worse off. Is this extra funding just for the areas mentioned?

 

£4.30 would be manna from heaven! 


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#2 BroadOaks

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:13 PM

Looks like we are given options! A recent questionnaire that went to all nurseries in our Borough:

Attached Files


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#3 hopeytg

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:24 PM

I wish there was a universally agreed system - we don't have and never have had any enhancement for having an EYT. I understand that some areas - such as London have higher running costs but surely all settings should receive the same basic funding to reflect the level of qualification the staff have?  I have tried to compile a letter to our parents explaining the changes in September but as we have had no official input from the Local Authority how can I?


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#4 Rebecca

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:30 PM

Can you send a letter explaining the principles but also explaining that as the numbers haven't been confirmed yet you can't give exact costings for your sessions?


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#5 hopeytg

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:35 PM

Good idea Rebecca 



#6 Rebecca

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:43 PM

I think also that if you make it clear what your position is - i.e you're trying to plan without knowing exactly what you are planning for then they will be more 'on board' with everything when you do have figures and do tell them how much you are going to have to charge to keep your setting going


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#7 finleysmaid

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:37 PM

  http://www.itv.com/n...eated-in-derby/

 

it appears that this extra 2 million is to ensure help in certain areas ,,,it is not to replace the 30 hour scheme.

 

£4.30 is the base rate BUT there are lots of reasons why many of us may not get this rate as the funding does not go universal (ie schools and pvi's) until 2020.

We have also been asked our opinion from our lea but they were also very open about the advantages and disadvantages of each option. I would urge you to think about any negative effects before you chose...... paying for an eyp uplift for instance may appear to be a good idea...but what happens if they leave? could you afford a hit on your funding and have you budgeted for that?

You might think it is not necessary for an uplift for SEN because you never have any children with difficulties...what happens then when you have three children with SEND at the same time???? In other words think outside the box what happens if things change will your funding be appropriate ?


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#8 BroadOaks

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 10:40 AM

Our supplements have reduced, due to the 10% cap being introduced for certain supplements. We used to get more for our EYT and it made it financially viable, to pay this extra for the "quality." It will no longer be financially viable but I can't explain further here.

 

The rate of £4.30 x 30 hours p/w per child (paid over 38 weeks of the year) totals £4902 / 52 = £94.00 p/w per child on average, or £129.00 p/w per child, for term time only.

 

The incentive to open for 52 weeks of the year and over 10 hours per day (supplements reduced) have been taken away and I think this is an important issue.

 

The Government wanted this additional 15 hours to get families back into work and earning but many jobs are 40 hours per week or longer, in fact. If many childcare provisions decide to only open term time and for 30 hours, then finding childcare for these workers could become a problem. Yes, this could be seen as a good thing and many providers can charge a premium for these additional hours, due to demand increasing (we hope) but this won't happen instantly, so it could be a short term problem at the least.


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#9 finleysmaid

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 09:01 PM

the amount of spaces available is quite likely to plummet....if all our parents were to take up 30 hours we would only be able to supply 50% of what we do now


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#10 finleysmaid

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 09:03 PM

maybe this is a way of getting rid of lots of pvi's...it certainly favours the day care chains as a policy


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#11 BroadOaks

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:44 AM

yes, spaces will reduce, many provisions could be financially better off to open for these core School hours and days and reduce wage bills and possibly rental fees. This could not only lead to reduction in Pre-School, 30 hour spaces, but also full time spaces for all ages..

 

The Government are reducing the financial incentive for settings to open for longer so yes it would appear to be an ideal arrangement for a certain type of setting.

 

If these additional 15 hours is really to allow more parents the freedom of work or more work, it as not been thought through very well. Unless of course a provision is willing to open longer hours and take these eligible 30 hour children for various sessions from 7am - 8pm etc.. but this is still not ideal for workers or even many parents who also take another child to a School.. it simply does not work too well for many.

 

finleysmaid, I am unaware of the hours these nursery chain settings usually operate or how this benefits them more but it would seem you are right. The link below shows the "league tables" for these chains, as if it is now simply a game to grow and be top dog! http://kids1st.net/w...ague-Tables.pdf


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#12 marley

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:42 PM

I am preschool in a school(rural outstanding oversubscribed school) so we already offer 30 hrs by a 3 hr session in morning, lunch, 3 hr session in afternoon. Parents decide the sessions they want. I have 20 places for morning and same gor afternoon. I have 25 on roll, 2 children doing 30 hrs with most not even doing the free 15 hrs. Most of my mum's are part time and don't want to use the full 15 hrs but have time with their children at home. I would say 90% of my parents will be entitled to the 30 hrs due to their wages not their hours. I don't think that they will use the full 30 hours though.Currently got av 15 children in the mornings and 10 in the afternoons. Mind you they all leave in sept apart from 3 children!

#13 BroadOaks

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 09:13 AM

Marley - the 30 hours funding from September should benefit you then right? You would only need your 25 on roll or maybe even less to fill all your 20 spaces, so if you can get the children, you should be better off, depending on the funding rate, of course.


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#14 marley

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 01:28 PM

Most of my children only use 9 hrs of funding per week by choice . I think only 2 children would use the full 30 hrs due to work.
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#15 BroadOaks

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 02:10 PM

Most of my children only use 9 hrs of funding per week by choice . I think only 2 children would use the full 30 hrs due to work.

 

:blink: ohh


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#16 sunnyday

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:26 PM

Most of my children only use 9 hrs of funding per week by choice . I think only 2 children would use the full 30 hrs due to work.

Absolutely agree marley - my parents are almost all stay at home mums (good for them!) - there would be very little interest in 30 hours at my setting - which is precisely why I won't be offering it :ph34r:


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#17 finleysmaid

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 09:43 PM

anyone thinking of offering only a select number of 30 hour places? How have you decided how many and why???


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#18 Mouseketeer

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 07:19 AM

I've just started giving this some thought and have got as far as preparing a parent survey to send out (well it's a start), we have our own premises so shouldn't be a problem to extend hours in theory, I think the staffing will be the main problem with us, existing staff not keen to increase hours/working weeks (I'm with them on this), it will mean more part time staff which means more on costs, do I want more staff to manage for the pay? NO ! I think we will need to limit how many can do 30hrs to Finleysmaid, I'd like to fill up with 30 x 30hr 3/4yr olds, could almost be the cohort off to school, way less paper work, juggling sessions, sorting key groups, no room for 2 yr olds (did I really say that out loud) great for the first year then bam September and hardly anyone left :-/
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#19 finleysmaid

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 07:59 AM

im getting increasingly frustrated that the government appear to be trying to make me in to a full day care establishment...which is not our ethos....but I don't know how we can refuse to enter in to this agreement....especially if our competitors do.


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#20 sunnyday

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 01:06 PM

Worrying times fm (again) :( 


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#21 sunnyday

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 01:11 PM

I've just started giving this some thought and have got as far as preparing a parent survey to send out (well it's a start), we have our own premises so shouldn't be a problem to extend hours in theory, I think the staffing will be the main problem with us, existing staff not keen to increase hours/working weeks (I'm with them on this), it will mean more part time staff which means more on costs, do I want more staff to manage for the pay? NO ! I think we will need to limit how many can do 30hrs to Finleysmaid, I'd like to fill up with 30 x 30hr 3/4yr olds, could almost be the cohort off to school, way less paper work, juggling sessions, sorting key groups, no room for 2 yr olds (did I really say that out loud) great for the first year then bam September and hardly anyone left :-/

 

Mousie - that is exactly what I did - as from September I changed entry age to 3 - I have been able to increase numbers - so far so good have been 'saving' places for upcoming 3 year olds - so working to our usual numbers throughout the autumn terms and then accepting a few more children each term - think that so far (fingers tightly crossed) it is all going to plan :1b 


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#22 Rafa

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 05:11 PM

I'd like to fill up with 30 x 30hr 3/4yr olds, could almost be the cohort off to school, way less paper work, juggling sessions, sorting key groups, no room for 2 yr olds (did I really say that out loud) great for the first year then bam September and hardly anyone left :-/


That would be my dream too! I must say I am amazed at the amount of parents who are looking for places for their 2 yr olds!!
Does'nt anyone know how to play/amuse their own children at home anymore???
We have to keep drip feeding them in through the year to guarantee we stay open each September, But...........phew!
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#23 thumperrabbit

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 05:22 PM

That would be my dream too! I must say I am amazed at the amount of parents who are looking for places for their 2 yr olds!!
Does'nt anyone know how to play/amuse their own children at home anymore???
We have to keep drip feeding them in through the year to guarantee we stay open each September, But...........phew!

That's how we became

15 years ago you were lucky to get a place for your child if they were 2yrs old

then school nursery was introduced for 3/4yr olds but they could only take 13 ch - that meant a couple of older 2yr olds got in

then schools decided they could have 26 ch at 3/4yr old - that meant our group was made up of a half and half split of 3's and 2's

then schools decided they could take from the day children were 3 - that meant we were just for 2yr olds

IT's backbreaking!!!! hence why I left :1b 


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#24 Rafa

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 05:38 PM

then schools decided they could take from the day children were 3 - that meant we were just for 2yr olds
IT's backbreaking!!!! hence why I left :1b


Yes I can see the same on the horizon for us - village school has had built a lovely new classroom, they are now calling: Early Years Classroom, instead of reception and the staff are 'Practitioners' instead of Teachers!!
So I will be looking for a new job.......very soon! Should be retiring - old enough but having worked in early years all my life - broke! :(
The thought of babysitting everyone's two year olds?....... is not for me!
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#25 LKeyteach

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 06:11 PM

Still unsure what we are going to do. Can't easily increase to 30 hours but biggest concern is funding. I just don't think I can afford too many who only take 30 free hours. But if I restrict numbers well this current term half of my 3 year old would eligible. How do I decide who I give free places to and who not?

#26 lsp

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 06:27 PM

I am planning to put out a questionnaire to see who is eligible. We own our building so able to increase hours but like Mousie, can't see staff wanting the hours. We all know the problems with recruitment. As Finsleysmaid said, do we really want to become full day care, opening all year??? Then of course the funding. Looks as though we could be getting less. LA changing criteria needed to get proposed supplements. So, more worrying times ahead.

#27 finleysmaid

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 07:13 PM

Due to go to our borough info evening about this tomorrow...Humm i'll see what they say! anyone got any pertinent questions???!!


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#28 thumperrabbit

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 03:15 PM

Due to go to our borough info evening about this tomorrow...Humm i'll see what they say! anyone got any pertinent questions???!!

Mix it up a bit ;) and ask what they think will happen to settings that don't offer 30 hours!


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#29 Rea

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 03:55 PM

I've posted this on the Birmingham forum but thought i'd put it here so you can all see what our funding is likely to be like after April 2017.

Not as bad as feared for us in PVI although school nurseries will be spitting feathers!

 

https://www.birmingh...unding-formula/


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#30 finleysmaid

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:59 AM

ok so last might was a complete waste of time. They refused to discuss the funding amounts at all ! they basically went through all the info we already know (because we are informed people on this site!!!)

Our problems were not actually dealt with ...no solutions were offered ...and I was told how to create a business plan! I hate to tell them but we all need to create business plans in order to set up our businesses!

this event was obviously put on because the LEA needs to fulfil this as part of their brief but I wouldn't bother going if your events are run by childcare works....unless of course you fancy three hours of frustration!


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