FSFRebecca Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 You may have read some of the furore in the EY press over the weekend regarding Gill Jones' comments on singing in nursery. Gill, Ofsted’s deputy director of early education, told an NAHT conference that the demise of singing in nursery impacted on children's emerging reading skills, she said: “Children that can sing I’m sure read better, though I have no research to prove that whatsoever, but I’m just putting it out there because I’m sure it’s right.” [TES. 05/10/18] Her comments provoked quite a Twitter storm which Gill addressed online saying: "This storm is an unintended consequence of me highlighting the importance of singing with young children during questions from delegates. I was talking about rarely hearing solo voice singing and importance of it, not saying that nurseries don’t sing!" You can read the full TES article here Gill's response to Kym Scott on Twitter can be read here Did you read the article? What's your view on singing in nursery? My own experience is that younger staff are quite self conscious of singing aloud - I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to why! I also struggle with encouraging staff to sing new songs - we seems to wheel round about 8 songs and don't introduce new ones. That's my current moan! I'm going to work through the new Musical Development Matters and see what inspiration I can find! What's your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 We sing everyday in our group - I couldn't even begin to count how many different songs are in our repertoire I love singing and I love leading singing but then I am a bit of a show off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 well I wrote a whole page of response and then lost it! the response I mean!!!! we sing about everything! (well lets face it Loo and Poo rhyme!!) My 'young' deputy reckons its about older staff giving good examples...schools lessening the influence of singing and staff being over critical of other staff! favourite way of increasing song choice....we have a song bucket filled with lolly sticks with a picture stuck on them and the name of the song on the stick. Either the child or the adult chooses a stick and then we all sing the song. We sometimes have a solo session too where children sing a song on their own (if they want to!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) https://pin.it/5cnk5snwjx6d2l hopefully this link works! except we use them for songs ..so a spider might be incy wincey or being a spider song etc Edited October 8, 2018 by finleysmaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 As a complete pack-away each day 'solo singing' is one of our main 5min fillers at the end of our sessions! The child love it and I think it's great for self confidence Obviously the children choose whether they want to sing or not, however as the year goes on even the least confident child usually has a go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 We sing everyday. Poor children because I am tone deaf! We have a song bag which we use sometimes and the rest of the time we just go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I sometimes wonder where Gill Jones goes to get her ideas about nurseries.! if we're all singing then who isn't ?????!!! our local school however doesn't seem to do anything creative! All nurseries should be singing or they'll be missing huge bits of the EYFS ! singing is hugely important both for the acquisition of language and of maths! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Brilliant - thanks all - I knew I could rely on you. I'm in nursery today so will be busily finding lolly sticks for our 'Singing lucky dip'!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I would just like to add we even sang to a pig (several times) the other day on our farm walk to try and wake him up! We sing at every opportunity, on the loo, at transition times and if it’s baby shark we are singing all the time! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I had a selection of song bags.. about 15 items in each one relating to a song.Often they were a prop to use, and they occasionally related to more than one song. Many were finger puppets or toys we found around the room.. Children would take it in turns to have a lucky dip song. Some sang solo, others in group depending on the child.. I had a song book I had made with words and a picture for each one, it was always a work in progress, but it was kept in the book box and the children would often dig it out and begin spontaneously singing the songs they recognised. Those they didn't they would often come and ask someone to help them sing it.. I often think that people say something believing we all understand their process behind it, it then gets taken out of context and chinese whispers make it more of an issue than it really is.. I am sure every early years setting sings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 47 minutes ago, zigzag said: and if it’s baby shark we are singing all the time! unless you are out for a quiet evening dinner with your hubby and all you can hear is that song playing loudly on the ipad next to you! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyPancakes Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I'm going to say something here that I wouldn't say without the benefit of anonymity. My observation is that singing freely, while really engaging children, is mainly a middle class activity. As a childminder I attend several toddler groups which are generally divided along class lines. As an outsider I just go wherever's right for the kids. The middle class groups are strongly led and the parents sing with gusto. Working class groups generally avoid singing and when they do the parents, and other childminders, seem embarrassed and sit back and watch the children. I've never worked in a nursery, but I imagine there may be similar divisions between nurseries and pay grades. There is so much that children can benefit from singing, that perhaps Ofsted could aim to observe singing in action as part of their standard inspection? (glad of the anonymity here too). I really think it's that important. Practitioners need the confidence to lead children in song. And while we're on the topic of Baby Shark, I've never met a song that gives such a wonderful pre-writing workout. Fingers, knuckles, wrists, shoulders, back, legs. I love it. I love singing and dancing to it. I don't love children passively watching on a screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, HoneyPancakes said: I'm going to say something here that I wouldn't say without the benefit of anonymity. My observation is that singing freely, while really engaging children, is mainly a middle class activity. As a childminder I attend several toddler groups which are generally divided along class lines. As an outsider I just go wherever's right for the kids. The middle class groups are strongly led and the parents sing with gusto. Working class groups generally avoid singing and when they do the parents, and other childminders, seem embarrassed and sit back and watch the children. I've never worked in a nursery, but I imagine there may be similar divisions between nurseries and pay grades. There is so much that children can benefit from singing, that perhaps Ofsted could aim to observe singing in action as part of their standard inspection? (glad of the anonymity here too). I really think it's that important. Practitioners need the confidence to lead children in song. And while we're on the topic of Baby Shark, I've never met a song that gives such a wonderful pre-writing workout. Fingers, knuckles, wrists, shoulders, back, legs. I love it. I love singing and dancing to it. I don't love children passively watching on a screen. I can understand why you might think this but I don't really think it's true. Having been brought up in the north of England women of all sorts sing to their children (there's a little fishy on a little dishy!!!) and playing in bands and majorette marches are very much a 'working' class activity (forgive that label) in Scotland dancing and singing were very much a part of my experience (my family still dances at weddings etc! hilarious) Singing and dancing in most cultures is very much a part of everyday life and is often used by us to break down barriers. (only my opinion of course ...and I too can say that because i'm not really 'known'!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I wonder if the difference is generational rather than class based? We definitely have some young mums who would be mortified to have to sing in a group, but their babies or children might be exposed to music by having the radio on or music streaming? I would hate to think that the singing of nursery rhymes and other songs is a dying art. But if it is, I guess it's our job at nursery to make sure that children are singing every day. We certainly sing at every opportunity and it sounds like everyone else is too! Was just about to submit this, but wanted to add that, as I type, I can hear a three-year-old belting out our washing hands song in the bathroom, together with her own added lines! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I have to say that we have noticed a decline in the amount of singing we see in settings, I'd say over the last 4 to 5 years. We we're just talking about this last week, along with a decline in letters and sounds (phase 1). In some cases we have more CDs being put on, in some cases it's not that singing isn't happening at all, just not as often as in the past. There are times when I can be in a nursery for a whole morning and not hear any singing, or I can hear loads of singing, songs I don't know myself but the children love. But I do see more of the former! As with all these 'storms' it's always going to be the people who are doing xyz that are going to speak up, thus giving a slightly skewed picture. Who would honestly respond in this thread / respond on twitter saying yeah we don't sing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Oh go on tell us if you don't sing ! we promise not to be judgemental! IF you don't sing why? What would make it easier? How can we learn from your experiences if you don't tell us...we don't know who you are What does make the difference between groups that do and don't??????? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Thinking about it- as whole group we sing far more now than we used to. A few years ago we always did a whole group story at the end of the session, now it is always singing and story time is in smaller groups throughout the session. Whole group story was always a struggle to keep the children focused, but singing always seems to hold 100% interest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 This thread came up at work today because we were outside and the children spontaneously decided to sing 5 naughty monkeys....they organised themselves in to a group gave themselves roles and starting singing loudly! The child leading this is a Polish child who is a reluctant speaker and has stayed with us to do another year ….WOW what a difference a couple of weeks makes, having a smaller group has been a big bonus for her 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 10 hours ago, finleysmaid said: WOW what a difference a couple of weeks makes, having a smaller group has been a big bonus for her It always amazes me how quickly the next school cohort ‘step up’ when one school year moves on and the new leaders of the pack emerge :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Mouseketeer said: It always amazes me how quickly the next school cohort ‘step up’ when one school year moves on and the new leaders of the pack emerge :-) She is the first child for whom we have been able to defer for the whole year ...she will start in reception next September and will continue in that cohort for the remainder of her school years! Brilliant! I have another this year for whom I suspect we may be asking to do the same if the parents agree!!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 my colleague ...with whom I was discussing this thread yesterday said today...….."do you know I hadn't realised just how much we sing but i've also really noticed just how much our children burst in to song at any time!!!" So if you don't sing do give it a go...what have you got to loose, a moment of slight embarrassment might turn in to hours of learning for your children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I think it may also be an age thing. I used to be incredibly self conscious about singing when I was younger and starting out as I know just how bad my voice is! Now, I am a lot older, I just don’t care anymore. (Everyone else probably does though!)🤐🤫 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraggle Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Singing, oh I sing all the time with my little cherubs. They come in with music playing at a low level in the back ground, most days now one of my at the start of the year crying in the corner child, will come to me and say 'wanna boogie' and her chalk of choice will be in her hand and on goes my lippy and a boogie is what we shall have. We sing when we do the register as we have a song, we sing to welcome in the day, this is done in a calm relaxing way. Early maths as groups has different counting songs. Phase 1 phonics is started with a song to get children's focus. Children naturally will spontaneously break out in songs. Like others have said I don't think I would be given a yes from Simon Cowell but in the eyes of a 3 and 4 year old when we sing their eyes just get wider and wider and so do their smiles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Certainly given me a lot to think about (searches desperately for thinking cap) I shall report back ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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