Recruitment "catastrophe"

[Jester]

I couldn't see if anyone else has posted this so sorry if they have and I just didn't see it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36114767

 

What are your opinions? Quite frankly it makes my blood boil, how is the ability to do algebra, Pythagoras and other rather pointless maths procedures make one more worthy to do their job and be part of a ratio?

[narnia]

I agree......we had a couple of fabulous ladies unable to complete their degree courses because they couldn't pass the maths exam, yet their work was brilliant.

[lsp]

Can someone clarify what this actually means please. Some of my staff watched this on TV this morning. They thought that it meant if a setting employs a new member of staff, they must have good grades of maths and English to be counted in adult / child ratios regardless of qualifications already held. I think it relates to people who are in the process of, or hoping to undertake level 3 or above qualifications, must have the grades in place or can only be counted as level 2????? Why is nothing simple?

[Jester]

LSP as far as I can understand it is only applied to those either currently training or about to start training and is not applied retrospectively so those of us who trained 20 odd years ago are fine to be counts in ratio BUT if we then do a degree we won't be any higher than a level 3 cos of the stupid GCSE rule.

[finleysmaid]

one of my staff has just started her level 3 ..she will have to do maths and English because she got a D and D in English but C in literature. She has run businesses for other companies and managed a unit herself including doing the accounts and writing letters to clients...it does seem a bit daft that functional skills will not be considered. I am fortunate that she can see the long term benefit and she has a school age child so is seeing it as a help for her but I don't really think it's necessary.

[Rea]

https://www.pre-school.org.uk/sites/default/files/eye_faq_-_august_2015.pdf

 

The PLA pointed me to this, the last paragraph is what you need...

[Jester]

https://www.pre-school.org.uk/sites/default/files/eye_faq_-_august_2015.pdf

 

The PLA pointed me to this, the last paragraph is what you need...

 

Yes if you did your level 3 before September 2014 it's fine BUT if a level 3 person wanted to "top up" and they didn't have maths or English then they wouldn't be any higher than a level 3.

[catma]

I won't be popular with this opinion but maybe raising the professional standing of the EYFS in the eyes of the public is part of this.

It's not about doing pythagoras' theorem or calculus with 2 yr olds, but about having the skills to write coherently, spell appropriately, understand the concepts you are required to teach children; is the lack of mathematical understanding in practitioners the reason why this is seen as a weak aspect in practice and provision (see HMCI report 2015).

If adults are expected to model so that children can achieve the skills they need for starting in statutory education then they should have the basic skills to do so and a qualification ensures everyone does have them.

Equivalence is a different matter and any equivalent qualification should be enough to demonstrate those skills.

 

Cx

[Rea]

I'm actually torn by this, I've seen dreadful spelling and grammar in settings, its not acceptable when these people might well be required to write reports to other agencies and need to understand regulations etc. But, I think settings should be able to use their own professional judgement when employing someone.

[Fredbear]

This reminds me of an amazing practitioner that I had the pleasure of working with.

He was nurturing, fun and in my humble opinion just what early years children should have.

Was his writing up to scratch no, but I would rather have ten of him than an array of academists that are not able to do the essential practical skills involved in our jobs.

Surely it's about a balance of skills, best decided by the professionals whose job it is to recruit.

[lsp]

I won't be popular with this opinion but maybe raising the professional standing of the EYFS in the eyes of the public is part of this.

It's not about doing pythagoras' theorem or calculus with 2 yr olds, but about having the skills to write coherently, spell appropriately, understand the concepts you are required to teach children; is the lack of mathematical understanding in practitioners the reason why this is seen as a weak aspect in practice and provision (see HMCI report 2015).

If adults are expected to model so that children can achieve the skills they need for starting in statutory education then they should have the basic skills to do so and a qualification ensures everyone does have them.

Equivalence is a different matter and any equivalent qualification should be enough to demonstrate those skills.

 

Cx

 

Should we be looking at why the colleges and schools still, IMO, have a tendency to 'highlight' a career in early years to those students who are less capable academically? I can only go by my experience with students we have had coming through on work experience and placements. It comes as quite a shock to some of them just how much is involved.

[Jester]

I won't be popular with this opinion but maybe raising the professional standing of the EYFS in the eyes of the public is part of this.

It's not about doing pythagoras' theorem or calculus with 2 yr olds, but about having the skills to write coherently, spell appropriately, understand the concepts you are required to teach children; is the lack of mathematical understanding in practitioners the reason why this is seen as a weak aspect in practice and provision (see HMCI report 2015).

If adults are expected to model so that children can achieve the skills they need for starting in statutory education then they should have the basic skills to do so and a qualification ensures everyone does have them.

 

Equivalence is a different matter and any equivalent qualification should be enough to demonstrate those skills.

 

Cx

I agree with you Catma that this raises the status of EYFS and the EY profession as a whole. For example, my son's key person was lovely but everytime she wrote something in his "home book" the spelling and grammar was appalling, used to make me cringe!

For some practitioners an equivalence test may be the only way foward, over the full GCSE, (However I got 5% off the pass mark for ET, frustratingly) and it should be as full and as valid as the the GCSE, and ET is accepted by ITT providers so why can t not be accepted by EYITT and L3 EY providers?

[Jester]

Should we be looking at why the colleges and schools still, IMO, have a tendency to 'highlight' a career in early years to those students who are less capable academically? I can only go by my experience with students we have had coming through on work experience and placements. It comes as quite a shock to some of them just how much is involved.

 

When I started my BTEC in 1996, many of the students on the course thought it would be easy, at the time the BTEC was of a higher and more in depth level to that of the NNEB and because the BTEC was a new course they wanted to sign up as many students as possible and then many of those students found out that the level of work expected was much more than they anticipated so half of the people who started our course had dropped out within the first year.

[catma]

I agree with you Catma that this raises the status of EYFS and the EY profession as a whole. For example, my son's key person was lovely but everytime she wrote something in his "home book" the spelling and grammar was appalling, used to make me cringe!

For some practitioners an equivalence test may be the only way foward, over the full GCSE, (However I got 5% off the pass mark for ET, frustratingly) and it should be as full and as valid as the the GCSE, and ET is accepted by ITT providers so why can t not be accepted by EYITT and L3 EY providers?

 

Although ITT requires science as well plus the literacy and maths skills tests!!

I also see some very poor literacy skills and general presentation skills in displays as well as records so for me a minimum standard is no bad thing.

Cx

Cx

[mundia]

I have to say I agree with Catma. I know a lot of people struggle with maths, but some basic knowledge is essential. I find I am often out in settings working with people who find it hard to add up 4 or 5 numbers, or reach for the calculator when adding up two prices in the shop. Poor numeracy skills are, sadly, acceptably embedded in our culture, and yet have greater influence on future life chances and poverty than poor literacy.

 

As a little aside, many moons ago in another life, I wrote an article about algebra in the early years...... (shuffles off muttering to herself....)

[Jester]

I have a pretty good working maths knowledge, I'm just totally rubbish at exams! That said I sailed through GCSE English and Science and when I did the skills tests for GTP (I'm surprised I got to that stage considering I didn't have a C in maths at the time) I passed the literacy and ICT tests with no problems.

My point is that Equivalency Testing is accepted by many ITT providers yet a number of EYTT providers aren't accepting it (Nursery World reported on this earlier in the year) they are just as full and relevant.

I guess it annoys me more because I'm good at what I do, yet I struggle with maths (I have dyscalculia) however I won't be advancing further in early years now so for me personally it's less of an issue, but for those who struggle with exams and maths, well they will need to look elsewhere.

 

Algebra in the early years Mundia? I'm intrigued!

Edited May 2, 2016 by Jester

[sunnyday]

Such an interesting discussion.......

 

I do think some 'basic skills are necessary 'equivalency testing' at the very least.

 

I am currently mentoring two students (6th form secondary school) - one studying for a level 3 qualification as she has her Maths and English - lets call her Betty, the other studying at level 2 as she hasn't yet managed her Maths and English lets call her Mary.....

 

Both super girls - but sadly Betty just hasn't got 'it' - not sure that I can define 'it' but i know it when I see it :1b Mary however, has 'it' in spades - I do hope that she can pass her exams this time round........I am far more 'worried' for Betty I can see that this is not going to be the right career choice for her

[thumperrabbit]

Does anyone know how much it actually costs to obtain an Early Years qualification these days? I just decided to look at our local college website but it doesn't say how much it costs.

[finleysmaid]

Does anyone know how much it actually costs to obtain an Early Years qualification these days? I just decided to look at our local college website but it doesn't say how much it costs.

most students studying at level 3 can get it free! they may have to pay a small amount for gcse's however.

[louby loo]

most students studying at level 3 can get it free! they may have to pay a small amount for gcse's however.

 

Around here it is £1,800 - £2, 800 depending on provider - they can apply for a student loan (which they'll never pay back if they stay as a L3 :lol: :lol: )

[finleysmaid]

 

Around here it is £1,800 - £2, 800 depending on provider - they can apply for a student loan (which they'll never pay back if they stay as a L3 :lol: :lol: )

there are several companies who are recruiting for the 'government' they then pass your number on to a training supplier....you have to be doing a certain number of hours or under a certain age. it is nearly all done at work ..we are currently using learn direct as the supplier

[finleysmaid]

or you can try here too...

 

http://www.smart-training.com/

[louby loo]

or you can try here too...

 

http://www.smart-training.com/

 

Unfortunately our staff member doesn't meet the criteria for either- even Ofsted agreed it was ludicrous :huh:

[finleysmaid]

 

Unfortunately our staff member doesn't meet the criteria for either- even Ofsted agreed it was ludicrous :huh:

do they not do the hours??

[louby loo]

do they not do the hours??

 

Has 'A' levels!

[lsp]

We have had the same issue Louby Loo. Possible candidate has level 4 in a completely different area. Had quotes around £2000.

[thumperrabbit]

Aaahh that explains it a little, someone who was looking to train in Early Years has been told £2K as a minimum! the reason I think is she has a degree from her career before children, non-childcare related though.

The system seems a little unfair though

Edited May 4, 2016 by thumperrabbit

[louby loo]

Aaahh that explains it a little, someone who was looking to train in Early Years has been told £2K as a minimum! the reason I think is she has a degree from her career before children, non-childcare related though.

The system seems a little unfair though

 

Our local college actually worked out the cheapest - and as for LD or ST (can't remember which one) They couldn't get us of the phone quick enough once they found out the course wouldn't be funded.... saying 'oh- well best look elsewhere because it's really a lot of hassle for us to do it through a student loan'