Non payment

[Thumper]

Hello

 

I'm wondering if any of you can offer advice.

 

I have a parent who's child attends Mondays, Wednesday's and Friday's. Parent always complains when bank holidays come that she's entitled to 15 hours and we're not allowing that by closing, she demands another day to make up for this, threatening she knows people in early years and knows her rights :@

 

Anyhow to cut a long history short we have always attempted to accommodate this parents wishes, bust back in November her child was sent home with diorreha our policy is 48 hours before return, the parent attempted to return her child the before 48hrs and was turned away, uproar was the outcome!

 

Ok so to the main point - the parent booked additional sessions (pay for sessions as uses all ffe hours) but is refusing to pay saying she's deducting the sick day we refused her daughter entry.........

 

She is also refusing to pay a session as her session was changed to the morning as it was party day and all children attended the party......

 

Help

[eyfs1966]

I would query all this with your early years team, just to be certain that you are abiding by their local rules re the FNEP. I am CERTAIN they will tell you that you are in the right and the parent is in the wrong. It may be that you need to ensure your contract expressly states that there can be no catch up sessions for sickness, holidays and bank holidays.

[Guest]

I don't charge for bank holidays so parents get the hours else when in the school year, I sort of agree with your parent that its not their fault that I've chosen to close. If a child is off sick then, if at all possible, I do let them make up sessions if they ask but I don't advertise that I do this but would prefer to keep my parents happy as after all, its only a couple of hours here and there

[finleysmaid]

i think you'll find if you add up your hours over the year that they are in the parents favour rather than yours. Usually you will find that you are actually open for about 3 days longer than you get paid for (if you just follow local school days) If this is the case then you can use this info !! You will then need to check your policies....does it make it clear in the info you give out that all days have to be paid for ..even if the child is sick or on holiday?

Edited March 19, 2013 by finleysmaid

[narnia]

If we are closed then we do not make up the FE hours and our contract specifically says that we do not have to offere them for B/H. If I am closed out of my own personal choice, then I will swap sessions around where I can. If a child is off sick then no, I don't offer the sessions again, the hours are lost. I want to keep my parents happy too, but if I started to swap hours because the child is sick, then I would also feel obliged to do it for their holidays etc. So, simply......B/H: hours lost. My closure: will swap where I can. That seems fair to me

[Greenfinch]

I do exactly the same as Narnia. If a child is ill and cannot attend, I have still provided the place and staffed it etc for that session.

[Thumper]

Thanks everyone.

 

All policies are in place and clearly state the 48hr rule etc.

 

We do try to accommodate parents as best we can if room permits on the registers and does not mean I'm employing additional staff to accommodate a swap.

 

What I'm finding hard to understand is that the parent was happy to book additional pay for days but then is attempting to use her FFE hours from November and December (12 hours) against a bill for this term......

[Guest]

Are your FFE hours transferable from one term to the next? If not then not sure how she can ask to do that. We have just started doing that in somerset, the parent gets 570 hours at the start of the childs free entitlement and can choose when to use them during the next three terms so the hours from the previous term can be carried over but the system used to be use before the end of the term or lose them

[narnia]

In my area. you use them or lose them, they can't be carried across. Chellandrews, if that's the case, then your parent needs her bill, plus a copy of the relevant part of the LEA agreement ( or give her the website address/phone number so she can check it out for herself). It might be that she is experiencing some financial hardship and is too embarrassed to say so?

[Thumper]

In my area. you use them or lose them, they can't be carried across. Chellandrews, if that's the case, then your parent needs her bill, plus a copy of the relevant part of the LEA agreement ( or give her the website address/phone number so she can check it out for herself). It might be that she is experiencing some financial hardship and is too embarrassed to say so?

 

Hello

 

This is the route I've taken

 

I have put a section on the end of the letter offering payment in instalments if required.

 

Thanks for you help

[sunnyday]

, threatening she knows people in early years and knows her rights :@

 

 

 

I think that I would tell her to ask these 'people' and (hopefully) they would put her straight........

 

Promise I'm not being flippant - if your policies are clear and you are sticking to them - she has nowhere to go with this - it's certainly not anything that I would 'entertain'.

[Thumper]

Are your FFE hours transferable from one term to the next? If not then not sure how she can ask to do that. We have just started doing that in somerset, the parent gets 570 hours at the start of the childs free entitlement and can choose when to use them during the next three terms so the hours from the previous term can be carried over but the system used to be use before the end of the term or lose them

 

Hi Max321

 

Our funding is still on a use it or loose it basis.

 

Your new system sounds Interesting, how are you finding it?

 

[SueJ]

We are very much like Narnia - if children are off sick or take holiday during term time then we do not have to offer alternative funded sessions. If the LA fund for a bank holiday (and usually it is only the May Day one) then we are asked to offer a different session if we can - however if for example we have 30 children attending on a Monday and can't offer all 30 children an alternative session (either because we do not have capacity for all 30 or we are not able to open an extra day) then we don't offer just one or two an alternative session as that wouldn't be fair to everyone else.

 

In my LA we are told by our LA what the term dates are and how many weeks of term are funded - funded hours are not carried over. Children are also only permitted two weeks holiday during term time for which funding is paid - anything over that then they are obliged to pay our normal fees. We also have to keep an eye on funded children who have lots of term time absences through sickness as the LA reserve the right to claw back funding for this too. Our registers are audited annually by the LA and they always check absences and holidays.

[Fredbear]

Hi I would certainly look what it says in your policies, as well as your funding contract with your LA. I would then politely signpost her to the Early Years Funding Department. We are unable to refund on any lost days due to sickness, holidays etc, bills and staff are still going to be there and still have to be paid.

[Guest]

Hi Max321

 

Our funding is still on a use it or loose it basis.

 

Your new system sounds Interesting, how are you finding it?

 

It give my parents the flexibility to use their hours across the school holidays when we are open. Most have opted to take 12 hours a week which means over the 3 terms they do not have to pay for any top up hours. It certainly saves on paperwork and invoice nightmares for me as well and parents know that they will not be getting any unexpected invoices like they used to once they had reached their termly max.

[Guest]

Let her go and see her 'people in early years' as she is obviously in the wrong and will find that out.

 

I always try to accomodate parents wishes but its not always possible so may be best to have one rule for all (ie sickness or BH no swapping to alternative days) than having one rule for one and one for another. What happens when you cant accomodate a child on an alternative day but you have done for another?

 

The worst that can happen is that the child is taken out of your setting. Although not pleasant, would save you a lot of stress as this doesnt seem to be a one off.

 

Good luck

[kristina]

We have a similar thing at the moment with a parent who when her child is off sick wants to make the hours up!! I have let her do it once and explained only once but now she is insisting that we do it again!! I have explained that we are full and the only reason I let her last time was because a child phoned in sick!! Sometimes I think you are damned if you do damned if you don't!!

We have also decided not to use our 3 inset days anymore for training as LA have stipulated that we must either make up the hours for parents on days we close for training (in school so not possible) or pay them the funding money back (cant afford to do that!). Next paragraph down states that all staff must attend 4 different training sessions a year!! I think I'll find that magic wand!!

 

Kris

[Rea]

Nothing to do with early years, but we've just had the bailiffs round about a missed council tax payment from 1997!!! I'm laughing, I cannot believe a 16 year debt we didnt know about can still be followed up! :huh: :blink:

[sunnyday]

Nothing to do with early years, but we've just had the bailiffs round about a missed council tax payment from 1997!!! I'm laughing, I cannot believe a 16 year debt we didnt know about can still be followed up! :huh: :blink:

 

:o

[Thumper]

We are very much like Narnia - if children are off sick or take holiday during term time then we do not have to offer alternative funded sessions. If the LA fund for a bank holiday (and usually it is only the May Day one) then we are asked to offer a different session if we can - however if for example we have 30 children attending on a Monday and can't offer all 30 children an alternative session (either because we do not have capacity for all 30 or we are not able to open an extra day) then we don't offer just one or two an alternative session as that wouldn't be fair to everyone else.

 

In my LA we are told by our LA what the term dates are and how many weeks of term are funded - funded hours are not carried over. Children are also only permitted two weeks holiday during term time for which funding is paid - anything over that then they are obliged to pay our normal fees. We also have to keep an eye on funded children who have lots of term time absences through sickness as the LA reserve the right to claw back funding for this too. Our registers are audited annually by the LA and they always check absences and holidays.

 

Sounds like we are governed by the same LA.

[lashes2508]

We have a similar thing at the moment with a parent who when her child is off sick wants to make the hours up!! I have let her do it once and explained only once but now she is insisting that we do it again!! I have explained that we are full and the only reason I let her last time was because a child phoned in sick!! Sometimes I think you are damned if you do damned if you don't!!

We have also decided not to use our 3 inset days anymore for training as LA have stipulated that we must either make up the hours for parents on days we close for training (in school so not possible) or pay them the funding money back (cant afford to do that!). Next paragraph down states that all staff must attend 4 different training sessions a year!! I think I'll find that magic wand!!

 

Kris

yes we too are In Essex but had already planned our training day before the new contract ! we have accommodated parents where we could and they all agreed the day way ahead as school was shut too so therefore ideal opportunity - i do not see how parents should be refunded for something they don't pay in the first place unless they are not in receipt of funding !

at our recent committee meeting , it was suggested that we offer days in lieu for those who choose to go on holiday or sickness but personally feel it's extra work and could open a can of worms - i am very flexible and do my best to support parents but policy is clear and therefore it would only ever be at my discretion

[lashes2508]

just realised you meant paying council back not parents ! but again how are we suppose to do group training which is more beneficial especially with behaviour if we cannot close - on one hand they want us to train but with the other take it away !

[kristina]

My thoughts exactly lashes2508!!

 

Kris

[louby loo]

just realised you meant paying council back not parents ! but again how are we suppose to do group training which is more beneficial especially with behaviour if we cannot close - on one hand they want us to train but with the other take it away !

 

 

Don't even mention the word 'training' we have to do it- but not actually much in book that staff haven't already done!

[Thumper]

Thanks for all your support everyone.

 

I wrote a letter to the parent concerned pointing out policies and procedures already in place, that they have signed they agree with and asked for payment to be made ASAP. Have mentioned if needs to pay in instalments to contact me.

 

So far I've heard nothing from the parent but plenty of gossip from other parents that they've shared the letter with :0

 

And so I wait!