sunnyday Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You are right eyfs1966, PVI's should never have agreed to enter the scheme- however when we first did it was fantastic as our fees were £4 per morning and the funding was £6-60 per 2.5 hour mornings- a no brainer! However this is something like 15 years ago and we weren't governed by anywhere near the amount of rules and regulations that we are now. (incidentaly our funding is now £10.80 per 3 hour morning and our fees are £15 per 3.5 hour mornings) I cant actually remember when our fees overtook the funding but it was quite a while ago and 2 years ago we introduced a 3.5 hour morning to enable us charge more. That's exactly right - that's how we all got 'suckered' into it in the first place.......... Honestly when you try to explain this cranky system to anyone not involved in EY they can't believe it - I have tried that out on my sister (an intelligent lady) - I'm sure she thinks that I have somehow got it all wrong! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 We serve some really poor families and there is no way they would be able to pay a top up fee. Free should be free and I feel really strongly about this. Parents are shocked when I tell them how much we lose per child per hour as soon as they get funding, but they have never offered to pay! When there is such a lot of nursery competition around us it is just not something we could do either. There is a nursery locally that has asked for a 'voluntary' top up fee but it upset quite a few people. We charge £4 an hour and the funding rate has been stuck at £3.52 for the last few years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I agree free should mean free too...but if this is the governments wish then they should fund it or in the very least sort out issues that are in place to support genuine families in need such as the fraud around tax credit claims...again a whole other thread! Wasn't this originally introduced to allow settings to charge a little more and pay staff higher wages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yes free should mean free but if it also means the closure of a setting its not right is it? We are providing free places at the expense of how much we can pay the staff, the resources we can offer the children, which training we can pay for and how much we pay for every single thing. I appriciate there are families who couldn't afford to pay, my comment about them using parental choice was tongue in cheek, but we should at least make them aware of the finances. Better than have them wonder why we haven't replaced the broken shelf unit, why we cant replace the printer and why we ask for donations of fruit and consumables. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 We,d only be asking parents for £1 a session (35p an hr on our rate) less than a packet of cigarettes if they attended 15 hours a week ! So all we do is put up rates for those not able to access funding which seems even more unfair to me, especially if they don't quite meet the 2 yr funding criteria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 just as a matter of interest how much do you think parents should pay for a session...how much would you need to charge to make it viable? do you charge the same fee as a childminder in your area? (just interested really!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I wonder if the government will ever increase the funding fee to a more realistic amount..... probably very wishful thinking, sigh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Very wishful Laura, but where would we be without our dreams? :rolleyes: :1b :1b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I've got a feeling if the child/adult ratio comes into play funding may go down. That's my fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I know FB - that is really, really bothering me......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Surely if they do that no way would we be able to lower the costs for parents as the ones still paying will have to be charged more......mind you I guess when the 2 year old funding goes cross country for a lot of us there won't be anyone paying own fees and we'll be totally over a barrel.....and what with paying our higher qualified staff and having to chip into pensions soon too,More settings will close...and then where will all their funded 2 year olds go, they're already struggling to place the extra they need to now and practically begging settings in our area to agree to take them.....so the point in all this would have been ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I can't answer that mouse I cannot see how this scheme is ever going to decrease costs for parents anyway......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I really don't think they've thought this through .....if we can all work out what the inevitable conclusion will be why the hell can't they 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Pass! :1b I suppose it's a 'box ticking' exercise I don't think that it will actually 'happen' - fingers crossed and petitions signed and comments submitted :1b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Sunnyday, you are right- The other day I was moaning about how on earth companies like us were supposed to manage when the pension thing kicks in. Well you'll just have to put your fees up- he says. Well 30 minutes later I gave up. Even he, after all this time of (not) listening to me couldn't seem to grasp the concept of how we are funded. Laura, yes free should mean free however I have never ever told anyone or even wanted to tell anyone that a place at my preschool is free! It's not and cant be, if everyone at my setting got a really & truly free place we wouldn't last a year.If the government is truly committed to offering FREE places then they need to up the rate. There is only so little staff will work for and only so much we can charge the parents that have to pay fees. fredbear- unfortunately I have the same horrible sneaking suspicions as you and others. If the ratio is raised I truly fear the funding will lower. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tish501 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Can anyone tell me if we can limit the no of funded children that we take in my full daycare.......holidays are a nightmare....we have 2 other sessional settings in our village,but most parents want to some to us...:(but with 46 out of 58 of our children funded.,....75% of those DO NOT ATTEND during the 14 weeks unfunded......I am thinking of limiting the no I takeand to fill the gaps with fulltime children which is what we provide......half term just gone and had to put staff off here and there as hardly any children,,,,,i know the funding payment would be higher...but galls me to be nearly empty for 14 weeks will settings nearby that can provide just the 15 hrs that sooooo many parents only want x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hi That must be a logistical and budgetary (did I make that word up :blink: ) nightmare........I would contact your LA for advice...... :1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 We have no emphasis on how many we should take so it continues to be a business decision ( which at times is hard as children are involved and you want to help them all) Have you been given a number you have to take? If not then use your judgement for the best way if protecting your business. Would any staff like term time only contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Would any staff like term time only contracts? Oh good thinking Batman - oops I mean gingerbread man! :1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 from what I recall reading in birminghams terms and conditions, we have to give a free place if eligable, but the council has ultimate responsibility for ensuring all children have a place somewhere. We don't have to provide any funded places if we don't want to, although then of course we would miss out on funding money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 We suggest they reduce the numbers of hours they have and then they can spread them across the holidays so no dip in funding, not sure if that can be done in all authorities or just a somerset thing. We don't offer a term time option so they have to spread the hours out or pay for the extra hours over the limit of entitlement. Somerset have,from Jan, allocated the whole 570 to each parent to use as they wish so any unused hours can be now be taken into the next term so this has made things even better for parents who choose to spread hours to keep costs down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashes2508 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 just wondering if I were to move abroad would my child get free nursery education ??? have tried to google but nothing coming up strangely enough ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashes2508 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 i meant that hypothetically as my 11yr old would not like me suggesting he needed to go to a nursery ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 i meant that hypothetically as my 11yr old would not like me suggesting he needed to go to a nursery ! you might find this interesting..... http://www.preschoolsnsw.org.au/faqs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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