Cait Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It seems to have escalated out of unfounded claims, doesn't it. I don't really know the ins and outs, but as a Manager I think I would have watched the CCTV footage and got back to the parents and asked them to watch it if I found nothing. Surely that's what the CCTV is for - if not, then why is it there? Sorry, not much help really. I really feel for you and sending big virtual hugs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 see??? Cait and I belong to the common sense club!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Dawn, please join a union. I have always found Voice very supportive. I know they can not help you at this time but I would feel happier with protection in your situation when I returned to work. You may be able to join for a limited period if you explain your about your maternity leave. Also, if you do not feel able to return on Tuesday then take some time off sick to recover. I think you are right to refuse to do parents evening on Monday. Take care and enjoy your break, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I always thought with it being a 'safeguarding' allegation you could not be told what it was about till investigation... i gues in case you had time to fabricate a version of events, not that i would (or even could) especially since there is cctv anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 thanks for the fantastic advice and support everyone, you really do not know how MUCH this has helped me so far. I will look at joining a union too, i just hate being so in the dark about this all. I guess all i can do now is see how the meeting goes on Monday and see how i feel about returning to work Tuesday..... I guess that will rest on how supported i feel at the meeting / their plans for facilitating my return to work in light of allegations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I think that because it is a new nursery, with a new owner (who has no experience in owning a nursery) and a manager that has only 6 months experience they (dare i say it) don't necessarily know what they are doing / what to do for the best. It is the first thing that has challenged them and it is extreme (after all a child alleging something is of course cause for concern) regardless of the fact that i did not do anything, or even the fact that the parent doubts the child's claim... so the nursery have jumped on it with full gusto, when as you say could have probably been so easily resolved by showing the parent the cctv. i understand the procedure and i am glad they are following it, after all if my child alledged a member of staff had done something i would damm well want to see it investigated..... however on the other side (as a member of staff) i have been left feeling stressed, in the dark, anxious, vulnerable, physically sick, horrendous stress related migraines and all of these whilst being pregnant (ok i know i am not the only pregnant person in the world to experience stress but this is prolonged and not good when i have high blood pressure assciated with pregnancy already!) I feel that although each time i have spoke with the owner / manager they have sympathised to how i feel (and they have always asked how am i doing) i don't think they are seeing the bigger picture and how this may affect me after the investigation.... from speaking to the owner today she said she hoped it would all be sorted by monday and i could be back in on tuesday...... do they seriously expect me to go in and act like nothing happened (maybe this is what i need to do?, i am not sure.....) It seems to have escalated out of unfounded claims, doesn't it. I don't really know the ins and outs, but as a Manager I think I would have watched the CCTV footage and got back to the parents and asked them to watch it if I found nothing. Surely that's what the CCTV is for - if not, then why is it there? Sorry, not much help really. I really feel for you and sending big virtual hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The Local Safeguarding Children's Board will have quite specific procedures to follow when a safeguarding allegation is made about a member of staff. Once the complaint has been received, the LADO must be informed, and his/her advice taken. This removes the ability of the manager to make any kind of discretionary decision - the Serious Case Review into the abuse carried out in the Portsmouth nursery highlighted that concerns raised with the manager were not taken further, if memory serves me well. No doubt the owner/manager feel they have to follow the letter of the law in order to show they have taken the allegation seriously, although I do wonder if they have followed their own safeguarding procedures in the way they have handled the situation. In a way it would have been better for them to have contacted the LADO before talking to you about the allegation Dawn. At least you would have been spared all this agony as you wait for the procedures to move to the next stage. I hope your last few days of holiday are pleasant, although I know this will be in the back of your mind. Susan gives really good advice, if you need extra time then go and see your doctor and get signed off until you feel able to return. I really hope this is resolved quickly and you can get back to enjoying your job again. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 We have always been told in our LA that any allegation regarding a staff member has to be discussed with the LADO before anything else happens and we follow thier instruction to the letter - assume it's the same elsewhere and it also gives the Nursery that important extra layer of support too. Maz I assume you meant to put Plymouth rather than Portsmouth in the above post ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Maz I assume you meant to put Plymouth rather than Portsmouth in the above post ? Of course I did! Thanks for pointing out my mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 hello lovely people well i have got my meeting at nursery on monday. I am not having a collegue acompany me since it is a small nursery and the less people involved the better. I am however having a friend come with me and she has worked in nurseries previously. since i don't know what the allegation is i guess i really can not prepare myself in any fashion, but is there any vital questions you would be asking if you were me? Thanks in anticipation Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Is this meeting still investigating allegations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 As far as i know yes it is, but like i say i don't know much. all i know is they spoke to staff on thursday, they wanted me in on Friday but i was on annual leave and had plans that could not change. so they asked me to come in on monday for a meeting, but it wil be classed as a suspended day off work. Dawn Is this meeting still investigating allegations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I would take my time Dawn. Listen to what has to be said, answer anything you are definite on but request you can go away and think about anything else and have another meeting a couple of days later when you have had time to think of anything you'd like to say or ask about.. It can be difficult to know what to ask in a situation like that so a breathing space can help. Of course, if the manager isn't concerned with the CCTV footage then there may well be nothing to answer, but you still might have questions of your own about he way things were handled, what would happen in the future, if this goes on your record, how long it stays. Hope it goes well and you can get back to being an expectant mummy :1b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Questions I might ask: Likely timescales to bring this matter to a conclusion What happens next How the matter was handled! E.g. Waiting so long to get your version of events! details are often easier to remember at the time!* surely lado doesnt stop working because these a holiday ( just my opinion) *I know our CCTV doesn't record what is being said! So if it was something that was said rather than a physical allegation it seems an awful long time to wait before asking the staff as well! Anyway back to the question in hand just remember the meeting should only be fact finding! As Rea suggests take your time! And hopefully after it is all over you can go back to relaxing and getting those stress levels down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamgirl Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 When you are proved innocent, I would also like to know what action will be taken against those who have falsely accused you. They need to be made to realise the impact of what they have done. People cannot throw accusations around that result in suspensions without repercussions. When it happened to me at my school, the head told the parent if her child made these allegations again....he was in juniors.....then he would be asked to leave. That did the trick. I had my full support from head teacher who knew the boy was lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Presumably though, this is a very young child?? I suspect it is more a case of something the child has said being misunderstood by the parents, let's say, for arguments sake......'Dawn pulled me off the climbing frame and hurt me'..........now, on face value, that sounds like Dawn HAS done something wrong. But, put it into context and with CCTV back up.........child has pushed another child, almost resulting in other child falling........then Dawn has removed the first child from the equipment, while she explains to him/her that the actions were dangerous and the child needs to take time out to reflect. So, all the child can think of is that s/he was having fun and Dawn stepped in to stop the 'fun' happening.Then mummy or daddy asks 'did you have a nice time at preschool today?' child says 'no, Dawn hurt me'...........and so the parent of course believes their child, because of course, their child is right.........and makes a complaint. Personally, if I was the manager there, I would have looked at the CCTV, decided that there was or wasn't a case to answer, based on the complaint. If I felt there was NO case, I would have invited parents in for an informal interview, let them see the CCTV for themselves and ask them again if they wish to pursue the complaint in light of what they have seen.I would explain that the staff member is likely to be suspended and that you will of course have to inform Lado, Ofsted etc so basically, I don't think this is necessarily a malicious complaint, or that the child has set out to deliberately cause mischief. More likely to be a simple misunderstanding that has been poorly managed by the Manager. At the very least, I expect this to be cleared up onMonday and for dawn to have a written apology and full wages. Sorry to have waffled, but was just trying to put this into perspective. Good luck tomorrow Dawn xx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devondaisy Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It does sound like a misunderstanding. Hopefully all will be cleared up tomorrow Dawn. I'll be thinking of you. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 This is exactly what i think has happened, the child has misunderstood something, i don't think it is at all malicious (i don't believe any of the children at that age have it in them (but i could be wrong). I really hope this is resolved monday as i can not take much more of the waiting and not knowing, Dawn Presumably though, this is a very young child?? I suspect it is more a case of something the child has said being misunderstood by the parents, let's say, for arguments sake......'Dawn pulled me off the climbing frame and hurt me'..........now, on face value, that sounds like Dawn HAS done something wrong. But, put it into context and with CCTV back up.........child has pushed another child, almost resulting in other child falling........then Dawn has removed the first child from the equipment, while she explains to him/her that the actions were dangerous and the child needs to take time out to reflect. So, all the child can think of is that s/he was having fun and Dawn stepped in to stop the 'fun' happening.Then mummy or daddy asks 'did you have a nice time at preschool today?' child says 'no, Dawn hurt me'...........and so the parent of course believes their child, because of course, their child is right.........and makes a complaint. Personally, if I was the manager there, I would have looked at the CCTV, decided that there was or wasn't a case to answer, based on the complaint. If I felt there was NO case, I would have invited parents in for an informal interview, let them see the CCTV for themselves and ask them again if they wish to pursue the complaint in light of what they have seen.I would explain that the staff member is likely to be suspended and that you will of course have to inform Lado, Ofsted etc so basically, I don't think this is necessarily a malicious complaint, or that the child has set out to deliberately cause mischief. More likely to be a simple misunderstanding that has been poorly managed by the Manager. At the very least, I expect this to be cleared up onMonday and for dawn to have a written apology and full wages. Sorry to have waffled, but was just trying to put this into perspective. Good luck tomorrow Dawn xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I think with it being a younger child it is probably a misunderstanding, but i do hope that i will never be put in a situation alone with said child (ie toileting etc, just in case another 'misunderstanding' occurs When you are proved innocent, I would also like to know what action will be taken against those who have falsely accused you. They need to be made to realise the impact of what they have done. People cannot throw accusations around that result in suspensions without repercussions. When it happened to me at my school, the head told the parent if her child made these allegations again....he was in juniors.....then he would be asked to leave. That did the trick. I had my full support from head teacher who knew the boy was lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamgirl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I agree about young children not realising what they are saying, which is why it is even more important that the key adults around them approach these things calmly and your manager I hope is right behind you. My head teacher stopped it going any further and dealt with it in house because he knew I was right. Sometimes people can be too quick to follow everything by the book without using common sense. Good luck next week. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Absolutly agreed, had a common sense approach been adopted ie reviewed cctv found no evidence (as i know this is the case) and then invited parents to see cctv and then asked them if they wanted to pursue it i would have been saved a whole lot of stress. but i can not turn back time. I am dreading tommorow, i can't remember what i did two days ago never mind a week and a hald ago. i know i did not do anything wrong (as in mistreat a child) but i know it was a stresful day (14 children in morning, stretch and grow session, one supply staff who does not know nursery, 1 staff member from upstairs who is good but does not now children well and one lunchtime cover who is training to level 2 at present, as well as three children who all pretty much need 1 - 1 at times) so i may have been more stressed than normal, but i don't think (no actually i know that this did not affect my practice!). I just think they are going to find something to pin on me..... or maybe because so much time has passed i am just being paranoid. I have had a terrible nights sleep last night, feel physically sick today, hardly spoke with husband because each time i do i want to cry and i feel at such a loss. If i could take maternity leave now i would!, not because i am in the wrong but because i don't want to go back and feel my every move / action is being watched.... i have truely lost confidence :-( Dawn I agree about young children not realising what they are saying, which is why it is even more important that the key adults around them approach these things calmly and your manager I hope is right behind you. My head teacher stopped it going any further and dealt with it in house because he knew I was right. Sometimes people can be too quick to follow everything by the book without using common sense. Good luck next week. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I haven't commented before, but I have been following this thread. As everyone has said it's a childcare workers worst nightmare. The sad thing is my friend who is a development support worker, has told me that this is happening more and more in her borough. She was only telling me a few weeks ago that hardly a week goes by without a setting asking for support............. most of which turn out to be unfounded. Bearing in mind the timing of this I would definitely ask for you holiday entitlement to be reimbursed, or go to GP and perhaps signed off for stress so you have time to recover/recoup your sanity. Hope all goes well tomorrow. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Oh Dawn I so feel for you, it must be one of the most frightening experiences purely by the nature of the process. I agree that after tomorrows meeting you may need time to recover from the whole experience. Just a thought as you have said on the day that staffing was different, do you feel that's maybe why the manager has been reluctant to show parents in the first instance the CCTV, as it may not show the nursery in a good light. Take care and try to rest Fx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm sure we'll all be thinking about you, and waiting with bated breath for your post x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Sending positive vibes and big hugs x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamgirl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Listen. Don't go in on the defensive. You are in the right and they are not. Try to turn it round in your head to feel more angry about what they are doing to you rather than what they think has happened to the child. Fight for your rights. Just because you are not in a union it doesn't stop you getting legal advice about the damage caused to your professional reputation. Tell hem you will be taking this further if necessary. What about citizens advice if you don' t want to pay for a solicitor. Who are you taking with you? Do you know a solicitor or lawyer? Do you know a journalist?!!!! Any union leaders? Take someone sharp in! Turn things round on to them if you can. I feel angry on your behalf that someone with no evidence can get this far with allegations. Be strong. Right is on your side and the truth will out. Xxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamgirl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Me again! And another thing! Just re read fredbears post. Don't let yourself become the scapegoat for your manager in any way. Maybe fredbears is right about the tape. Can you see it before you have the meeting???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Hi dreamgirl, I am taking a friend in with me, she has worked in nurseries herself. I can probably see the cctv at the meeting but apparantly it shows nothing anyway. I guess till tommorow i won't know anymore. I am getting myself in a tizz over it all but maybe all i can really do tommorow is approach the situation calmly, i however won't take any nonsense either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Will be thinking about you tomorrow x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I agree with Dreamgirl Dawn, go in in the positive knowledge you have done nothing wrong. When I was on supply a manager called me into her office, I went in and the first thing she said was 'dont worry, you're not in trouble', to which I replied 'I know I'm not'. She looked a little shocked at that but on the way to the office I'd wondered if I'd done something wrong, but knowing how I work, I knew that couldnt be the case so didnt for one moment let her think I'd doubted myself. Remember, the CCTV has shown nothing, the LA people are happy it shows nothing, you now need to have an explanation of how things could possibly have got this far. Then I'd ask my GP to sign me off with stress, let it run until your maternity leave starts and get back to being excited about your new baby. Loads of good thoughts for tomorrow :1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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