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Not Sure What To Say!


kristina
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I will try and make this as brief as I can!!

I own and run a private Pre-School from within a primary school, about 1 mile down the road is a day nursery and yesterday parents were called and given two hours to collect their children and 6.30pm the baliffs moved in!!

Anyway this nursery run an after school club which collected children from the school where I am based, the head teacher has been mentioning for some time about an after school club and would I open one! So this morning I sent questionnaires out to all the parent s asking their thoughts, opinions etc! However the manager from the nursery that has closed has approached the school with regards opening an after school club, she wants to own and manage (fine by me as have enough paperwork with the pre-school) but wants to open under my registration as it would be quicker!! I have called the lady in question but as of yet she hasn't returned my call, but would I be right in assuming that this wouldn't work! Not sure how she could own it but use my Pre-Schools registration!!

Any thought anyone!? :o

 

Kris

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Just throwing a question into the pot to ask/think about...

 

 

My worry would be that if I were the registered provider and something happened in the After school club would I be held responsible? After all it would be my name on the paperwork...

 

Inge

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I have to say the other issue is the school want her to run it from the Pre-School classroom, at the moment it is set up as Pre-School I paid to have the room painted over the summer, I contribute to some of the maintenance. My husband clears blocked drains etc, however I only rent room for a set period even though the understanding was it is ours to use fro meetings etc!

SO this also bothers me but not sure where I would stand on this!

 

Kris

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No, no, no, no, no, no!

 

Unless you know and trust this person implicitly I would strongly advise against allowing this setting to open using your registration. You will be liable for everything that goes on in the other setting because technically you would be the registered person.

 

Think of the recent Plymouth inquiry into Vanessa George's activities. Would you really want to take the risk of something awful happening that you had no control over, but would be expected to take the blame for?

 

:o

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ooooo....i wouldnt touch that with a bargepole ! you would have no say in the running of it -but you would ultimatly be responsible for it !!

how about you open and run it , but use them as an employed 'manager' ?

it also begs the question why they went bankrupt ?

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It might be an idea for the school to "host" the ASC temporarily until the lady can get registered with Ofsted herself, not sure but the school might get away with LA support or just having an ASC for under 2 hours without registration with Ofsted.

 

...but no way would I let anyone open under my registration!

 

BMG

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Initial concern, before my thinking kicks in is -

there are, I assume, routes of recovery to go down before the bailiffs are called in, which can be lengthy, letters asking for payments etc etc - so time to alert parents of any difficulties, arrange alternative care etc

 

these parents got just 2hours notice -

Does this fit with the 'person specification' you want involved in your (hard earned) business?

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I know what I need to say, I just feel sorry for all the parents and children!!

 

The thing is the school have had an after school club twice and both times it has failed!! This is why I have been dragging my feet doing anything about setting one up!!

 

I'll sit down with the head teacher monday, she's a very approachable person and the idea of the pre-school had been to raise the schools numbers which it has done so hoping she wont be too disapointed about after school club!!

 

Kris

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Guest jenpercy
I know what I need to say, I just feel sorry for all the parents and children!!

 

The thing is the school have had an after school club twice and both times it has failed!! This is why I have been dragging my feet doing anything about setting one up!!

 

I'll sit down with the head teacher monday, she's a very approachable person and the idea of the pre-school had been to raise the schools numbers which it has done so hoping she wont be too disapointed about after school club!!

 

Kris

 

Why has after-school club at school failed. sometimes schools set prices unrealistically cheaply. It may be, particualarly as you say numbers at school have risen, that it would now be possible to run one. however, this would be for the school. if they want you to run it, you have to make that decision. It is NOT possible for someone else to run using your registration, it is illegal.

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Read your initial post a little more carefully - I suppose it would depend if the managers skills at managing the setting had directly impacted on it's demise - or was that due more to the owners

 

I would still avoid any use of your registration but in terms of employing the manager to run the ASC and utilise her skills and experience (after looking in to the quality of those) it wouldn't hurt to 'interview' her if your heart was in setting it up for yourself, and you'd overcome your current rental demons.

 

I would take time during your chat with the head to explore why the previous ASC clubs run by the school failed and determine whether these can be avoided in future.

 

I guess you are going to have a long and thoughtful weekend as these and many other thoughts run through your mind!

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Say No.........

 

Our care club is committee ran, we employ a manager to run the club. It's also non-profit. So any profit made goes back into school. The care club also fund two TA's that work in the school by way of payment for the use of the school building.

 

The care club did share a registration with the school non-maintained nursery, however they now have separate registration as issues that are raised in one setting will impact upon the other.

 

Thought I'd share the details of our set up. Hope you work it all out.

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Was the manager the owner? If so, she wont be able to open another business in her own name if shes a bankrupt. I she wasnt the owner I'd syll say a firm 'no' TO HER USING YOUR REGISTRATION. bEGGERS BELIEF THAT SHE CAN ASK REALLY. (sorry about caps, I'm stting in a darkened room while son plays COD)

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Hi again Kristina

 

If you are thinking of taking it on yourself let me tell you what we do.

 

I own a nursery: registered for 40 children under 8 of these we can have 14 under 3 and 9 under 2. We are open 8.00am to 6.00pm all year round.

 

We have a mixture of families, some working all day some just needed school hours and some just mornings or afternoons.

 

First thing in the morning we would usually have an average of 8-10 nursery children up until 9.00 when the number goes up a fair bit, so running a Breakfast club for another 8 - 10 school age children makes senses in filling otherwise empty places; some of the school children attending are siblings to the nusery children.

 

It works the other way too; "school" day hours and afternoon children go home at 3.30pm so our numbers go down again, two staff members collect anything from 10 - 20 children from school each day which again bolsters our dwindling numbers of "all dayers". Some of the ASC children stay for an hour some until 6.00pm and again some are the older brothers and sisters of the nursery children. Another plus is that we also have some of these school children attending during school holidays too, filling the gaps of our term time only nursery children.

 

So the upshot is it works for us, our nursery has two room so we can have the nursery children in one room and the school children in the other if we want to but the majority of the time they mix well together. We do find that we need to let some of the boys let of steam outdoors after being made to sit down and be quiet all day but we have an enclosed "courtyard" area they can use in most weathers.

 

So if you are feeling a little put off by the track record of previous set ups I would like to let you know that it can work to your advantage, I am also thinking ahead to this Government cutting benefits and encouraging parents with children reaching a certain age having to take up work or training - these parents are/will be getting help with childcare costs.

 

Hope this helps you think it through, good luck - I would love to hear what you do decide to do though.

 

BMG

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Most of my thoughts have been covered but my first thought was what if she had to shut because her registration was taken away :o no wonder she wants to use yours..

 

If you really don't want to oversee it (and as a manager on a school site like you I can relate to that!) you could advertise for a manager and if she applies well she can be interviewed like any other applicants can't she xD

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Run for the hills, if she has been declared bankrupt she would be unable to open a business in her own name for seven years. There is no way on earth with that track record i would let someone run under my registration with a bargepole. This could open you up to all sorts of nightmarish situations, run run now. :(:oxD

Edited by bridger
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seems a strong consensus here...

 

but with the other one closing it may be the right time to consider extending to ASC yourself anyway, those parent who used it will need somewhere for the children to attend...

 

perhaps a discussion with head on why the ASC previously failed.. lack of interest, fees too low to sustain the wages?

 

but either way if she does it and uses your room it will have a huge impact on your use of the space, what you can leave out, put away, respect for your equipment, or not,cleanliness etc etc..

 

Inge

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If you feel it's worth it, then open one of your own, but DON'T allow this woman to use your registration.Frankly, I think she's got a brass neck for asking, though I guess she's deperate to keep some money coming in. I'd ring OFSTED, explain that the other one has gone bust and ask if you can extend your provision temporarily, while you sort out what you want to do. You can explain that you want it done quickly because of the families affected, so they might allow the change very quickly for you, as you and your premises are already registered. BUT PLEASE, DON'T say yes to this lady, however sorry you are for her plight!

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Hi and thanks for all the replies!

 

BMG quite interested in what you are saying, at the moment we are a Pre-School operatin 5 mornings a week and 1 afternoon and we are registered on the early years register only. We have the use of one classroom measuring 79 sq mtrs and have the use of a good size fenced garden and our own car park!!

I suppose the real question is where do I start with changing from a pre-school to a nursery and is my classroom large enough and how do you meet the needs of all the different ages after school if you still have nursery children in?!!

Also paperwork at the moment I'm in every day, I have my own key children and do all the paperwork!! So would I be biting off more than I can chew!!? Although I have to say it does sound quite an exciting idea!!

BMG could you possibly give me an idea how you split your hours for parents, ie are they in 3 hour blocks, half day, full day and then hourly for breakfast and afterschool?

 

Kris

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I suppose the real question is where do I start with changing from a pre-school to a nursery and is my classroom large enough and how do you meet the needs of all the different ages after school if you still have nursery children in?!!

 

Probably the needs of the older children would not be so tricky to meet as you may imagine. They would not have the same care needs as younger children, and some may even relish the opportunity to 'help' out the younger ones or just play alongwide them. Presumably this ASC only takes children from primary school (otherwise it's a bit more tricky) and at 11 they are still youngish children themselves. Most of them will probably love playing with the sand, water, playdough, construction and other pre school toys because it's something that they no longer do at home or school but secretly something they really like doing! I can't imagine you needing a lot of extra equipment or space at all.

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Hi again Kristina

 

Everything Kariana says is so true, especially the older children; up until July we had a girl age 11 that has an older brother she so loved everything to do with our babies and youngest children and spent her time playing, singing, feeding and cuddling them all; she had so much love to give them and now she is at Secondary School she visits whenever she can as she misses them so. Older brothers and sisters just seem to say hello and then join the others!

 

And yes sand, water, playdough, painting, glueing and making things are all very popular as are the play station and running around outdoors. We also offer a quiet area to read or to do homework. Basically allowing school children to do exactly what their friends may do when they get home.

 

My nursery has vague session times to fit in with FE, they are 8.00 to 13.00 and 13.00 to 18.00, or 8.45am to 11.45 and 12.30 to 15.30. Some children are in all day which for most is 8.00 or 8.30 to say 17.00 or 17.30 or 18.00 we do try to be flexible within reason and charge by the hour depending on age. We use a sliding scale which will give a cheaper rate for attending 40-50 hours then it would for say 10-20 hours.

 

I hope I have made sense with the above, but my nursery would look very empty up to 9.00 and after 15.30 without the school children. Good luck in your deliberations, talk to the school head teacher and see what their expectations are. The head at my feeder school has no intention of his staff running an After School Club although they do put on some sessions that they buy into ( without staff input), football, golf, choir, fencing and drama to name a few but all of these end at 4.30 and we pick the child up after this and bring them back in time for tea.

 

Come back to me if I can help anymore you are welcome to PM me.

 

BMG

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Just thought I would give a quick up date on what has been going on!

The nursery that has closed down has re opened under a nursery chain and are still offering OSC's, I did send home questionnaires to the parents at the school, so far out of 200 children 6 have replied and are asking for 2 hours after school care and are willing to pay £5.50 per child for the 2 hours!! They would like tea provided (of course!!) and would like it set up as a pay as you go scheme!!

SO I think I will be giving this one a miss and go back to looking after my Pre-School, as for the ex manager she has asked if I have any jobs available but haven't even thought about this yet as not sure I want to go down the route of having someone on board who may feel very bitter towards another local setting!!

 

Kris

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Good call.. often a bit of research helps to make your mind up,

 

and the ex manager- just because of the issues and losing her job doesn't necessarily mean she will be bitter about it... we al know these things happen and bad luck get in the way, circumstances, and if the setting is in new hands it will not be the one which caused her the issues... so I would not dismiss it without interviewing and meeting her.. of course that is if you need new /more staff... she could be brilliant .

 

We had a local setting close suddenly, ended up taking half the children and a member of staff, she was good and became a big part of our team.

 

Inge

Edited by Inge
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