blondie Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 i have a question that someone may be able to help me with - i am lead at the pre-school and have for the last five years or so written out fees notes , given them to parents and then collect the fees from parents putting amounts in fees book and passing monies to book keeper. i have been told that i should on no account be dealing with or touching any monies from fees ( per pdw) - i am not insured to do so and it isnt part of my job description - maybe not but noone on the committee is willing to do this as thye are all working parents and dont have the time ( or inclination) to do any of these - so who collects the money? also with regard the nursery funding forms - i send out , collect and sort out the forms ensuring the forms are sent in on time - i shouldnt be doing this either according to the pdw - but who will ? sorry to go on - just wondered what other groups do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 You sound exactly like me! Just keep praying someone with take it off you soon - its a horrendous job especially for someone as rubbish at numeracy as me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I and a friend own and run our own pre-school, I do all head count form, invoices, banking etc. and she trusts me to do it, like I would trust her. If you are not allowed to do it, then who do they propose does? Why don't you stop doing it all and see what happens then, I bet there would be something to say from the committee! Don't you just hate it when you're told you shouldn't do it, but no one else is prepared to do it either. Sorry for my ignorance but what is pdw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 My manager is exactly the same position as you. Its not that the committee won't do it but it has become part of the pre-school leader's job over time because of various things including problems over recruiting a treasurer. Advisors from the LA seem to live in a fantasy land sometimes (I assume the pdw is from there) and whilst I can understand she may be concerned for you and trying to protect you from accusations, I don't know how else the job would get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Sorry for my ignorance but what is pdw? I'm guessing Pre-school Development Worker or something like that? I guess if you're a committee run group then a member of the committee would normally be responsible for handling fees etc - and if your PDW is telling you that you shouldn't be doing it I would ask him/her to bring this to your chair's attention and let them deal with it from there. I've never heard of this before - and I'm wondering why insurance is an issue here. Do they think you're at risk of being mugged, or that there's a risk that you might run off with the fees? As usual I'm going to say that you (or even better your committee) should go and ask the 'why' question - sorry! Perhaps the committee should just add it to your job description and pay you a bit extra for doing so (and make sure you're insured, of course!) Did your PDW tell you what might happen if you continued to do what you've always done and the Committee continues to let you? Let us know what happens! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I had it added as part of my managers job and was paid to do it..nominal but nevertheless paid.... now staff still do the funding forms... it took us long enough to understand everything they wanted, and to explain that once a year to yet another person expecting them to get it right was impossible.they kept adding bits and asking for more changing things and now they will change with the 15 hours. Money is now done by a bookkeeper, she supplies the bills and does all the monitoring etc but staff give bills to the parents...when all are part time on different sessions it is the easier way, parents are told to put money in an envelope with child's name on outside and give it to a member of staff who puts the envelope in a cash tin, and bookkeeper collect this and does the receipts etc. NO cahnge is given in the setting, if they try to give them a note they supply an envelope to put it in . any with incorrect money is credited/added to following week. Parents are told this before they start. My worry is that this could be open to more accusation than taking the cash and immediately giving a receipt which is what we used to do....what if one get lost.. no one would know what was in it, parent could claim anything as could staff....I did voice my concerns but they went ahead with this anyway. this has always been a problem fro committee settings, unless you have someone willing to come in for every session to collect cash.. in our case they would be there all day 5 days a week! Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Money is now done by a bookkeeper, she supplies the bills and does all the monitoring etc but staff give bills to the parents...when all are part time on different sessions it is the easier way, parents are told to put money in an envelope with child's name on outside and give it to a member of staff who puts the envelope in a cash tin, and bookkeeper collect this and does the receipts etc. NO cahnge is given in the setting, if they try to give them a note they supply an envelope to put it in . any with incorrect money is credited/added to following week. Parents are told this before they start. My worry is that this could be open to more accusation than taking the cash and immediately giving a receipt which is what we used to do....what if one get lost.. no one would know what was in it, parent could claim anything as could staff....I did voice my concerns but they went ahead with this anyway. Inge Inge I would agree with you. As part of my admin role I prepare the invoices, receive monies, (as can any member of staff). I seem to remember years ago reading on the Charity Commission website (we are a registered charity) that money should be dealt with immediately, envelopes opened in view of two people and the money checked, and recorded. Otherwise the person opening the envelope could be open to accusations of pocketing it. Edited March 5, 2009 by Beau To remove Quote wrapped around reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I too manage a Pre-School and take all fees,write letters for outstanding fees,deal with funding forms etc. didn't know it was a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi, I also handle all the money, in and out, invoices, bills etc. What do they expect you to do if someone gives you money? This is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 We take fees too!! We couldn't afford to turn parents away!! We wouldn't be able to send out a fees reminder if we had turned them away and there is not always a committee member available. Surely we should be trustworthy enough to take money we look after something much more precious everyday!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 My treasurer deals with all invoices, debts, monies etc. I deal with funding forms only. I struggle to do everything I have to do, I don't know how you all cope with the financial side too. If my treasurer leaves I might leave too! mrsW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I also handle all the money, in and out, invoices, bills etc. What do they expect you to do if someone gives you money? This is nonsense. DITTO, plus I type up the invoices & chase up any outstanding debts. Many (many) years ago when there was no such thing as funding and my kids were at pre-school, the Treasurer used to be around for the first week of term for 30 mins or so every morning with a little book and collecting all fees. But as I said this was maybe 20 odd years ago now. I will admit to having a brilliant treasurer but she only comes in twice a week as she is at work, we also have a very good chairpersonl but we communicate mainly via email & phone as she works full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Having no committee members available to collect fees led to the playgroup giving out half termly invoices. This works well for us. Cheques and cash are handed to the leader in sealed envelopes with childs name on so she doesnt have to spend time counting. The envelopes are passed on to the treasurer. I do the head count forms and write the invoices. I dont know about it being an insurance issue, for us it was to cut down on the amount of time the leader had to spend dealing with money whena committee member couldnt be there to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tess Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 PDW didn't like it (and still moans), but all admin has been added to my job description. I do the works - committee just makes decisions ( well ish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 yes sorry meant pre-school development worker. according to her as not part of my job description then wouldnt be covered for it. also treasurer and chair should be checking all funding forms as if i was fiddling them somehow and it was found out then they are ultimatley responsible and would end up in court for fraud, not me - apparently this has happened in my local area . trouble is i feel more and more jobs are pushed my way and noone seems to realise how many there are. we have committee meetings and pdw says how is sef going how are books going training etc and so on and the committee sit there not realising how many jobs there are. also another point -who does your milk returns ? I WILL NOW ADD A REAL TALKING POINT WE ACTUALLY EMPLOY A BOOK KEEPER who i feel does nothing other than wages but is a close friend of the chair - so she sees nothing wrong with her and what she doesnt do!!! this is why the pdw is trying to sort out this matter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 this is why the pdw is trying to sort out this matter . I hope she's actively doing this and not leaving you to do it yourself! It must be galling for you to be doing a job that another employee should be doing and is presumably being paid to do (or could be being paid to do). I'm assuming you're not being paid extra to do this kind of work in addition to your normal duties? Good luck with getting this sorted out - I'll be interested to hear how you get on! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 she has been great - the last pdw was a waste of space and thought the committee was best thing since sliced bread as they say -the new one is very on the ball which they dont like - hence all this. yes the book keeper is being paid - i dont know what she does to get paid as i seem to do all her jobs - and not being paid any extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Having no committee members available to collect fees led to the playgroup giving out half termly invoices. This works well for us. Cheques and cash are handed to the leader in sealed envelopes with childs name on so she doesnt have to spend time counting. The envelopes are passed on to the treasurer. I do the head count forms and write the invoices.I dont know about it being an insurance issue, for us it was to cut down on the amount of time the leader had to spend dealing with money whena committee member couldnt be there to do it. This is pretty much how we worked too Rea. The treasurer would hand out invoices on a termly basis and the money or cheques would come back in sealed marked envelopes to be passed back to the treasurer, if she wasn't around at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaryEMac Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Our treasurer is not always around in the mornings so I take any fees and lunch money, put in envelope to give to the treasurer once aweek. It is all done in view of all staff. Treasurer does the invoices for the whole term and the receipts. She also sorts out the wages with the accountant, and deals with the milk form. I have always sorted the funding forms because that way I know that everyone has had a parent /carer declaration form and that the headcount form is sent in on time. It would be a nightmare to have to explain it to every new treasurer. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Oh dear, I don't know if I feel better or not. I also do the fees, send out bills, reminders, collect the monies in (I don't bank them though). Also do the register and all the funding, head count forms etc, I believe this is a conflict of interest but as has been said earlier if I don't do it who will? Feel better for off loading thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Ditto to the above and get your job description changed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanne Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 At my setting, the manager & senior assistant check the money & funding forms, but I as deputy can take money too & issue reciepts. I'm guessing the reason your pdw is kicking up the fuss about is because she thinks thew bookeeper should be oding it & lettin gyou get on with being with the children. As everyone's said, we've got enough to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Just a little thing that we introduced in September that's kept chasing money to a minimum is a late payment charge of £5 per week to cover administation costs. It's included in the fees policy and also a reminder, along with the payment due date, is included in the 1/2 termly invoice. It does tend to concentrate mind of those parents who regularly 'forget' to bring in their fees. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 this is a bug bear of mine.......... late payments.................. i dont go to a shoop and say i will pay you later or when i feel tlike it.............we can ill afford not to be paid late i have wages to pay I am interested in your late payment fee how late is late? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 We also have a late payment fee. We send out invoices at the beginning of the half term, money is to be paid either per half term or weekly, if the minimum weekly amount isn't paid a reminder is issued, this give them until the end of the following week to bring all fees up to date if this fails a £5 admin charge is added for each additional reminder for that half term. If fees go un paid for 3 weeks and no agreement has been set up, the child loses their place (although this has never happened!!) It has worked most of the time, but there is always the ones hell bent on not paying who leave without giving notice owing fees!!!! I'm not bitter though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 i know the feeling about non payers - the trouble is dont have enough time to chase these people - will definitely look into the late payment fee - we also have had children leave without paying they just frag it out and out then leave to go onto school . our pdw has asked book keeper to bring in books etc to do a financial health check - book keeper is now in a panic as she hasnt done all she should ( surprise, surprise) and sent in a note to me saying she hasnt done the development plan ( which we hav been asking her to help with) as its the job of the committee - how can they do this when dont know the financial situation - left note with chair - dont think she is a very happy person!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 this is a bug bear of mine.......... late payments.................. i dont go to a shoop and say i will pay you later or when i feel tlike it.............we can ill afford not to be paid late i have wages to pay I am interested in your late payment fee how late is late? The section in our fees policy says: "Invoices for fees will be issued each half-term. A final payment date will be included on all invoices for sessions. Any late payments will be charged a £5.00 per week administration fee." We always set the final payment date as a Friday so basically anyone who hasn't paid by that Friday is charged. Although we obviously use discretion such as when payments were due during the week of the big snow fall so we deffered the cut off date by a week. We only introduced this in September 2008 after being sick and tired of the same parents paying late and funnily enough no one has paid late this academic year RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 i handle all the money too then lock it in cash box till treasurer arrives to pick it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I think that having a late fee policy is an excellent idea, we too (well me) are constantly chasing late payments as if I haven't enough to do! I suppose I better get writing one, that too is one of my jobs! aah well........... Just thought - what are the legalities of this, if it is in your policies is that enough to exclude a child? Thanks, a very interesting thread. Debbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just thought - what are the legalities of this, if it is in your policies is that enough to exclude a child? Debbie I don't see why not. Unlike a school we are providing a service for a fee. As in any customer/vendor agreement if any party chooses to break the terms and conditions of that service provision then any pre-agreed consequences would come into play. As I always say - could you imagine the reaction if you went into M&S and said "I'll have this dress now but I'll pop back with the money in couple of weeks". RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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