flexible working request

[finleysmaid]

Ok having a nightmare! have refuse a member of staff a flexible working request due to the fact it does not meet the needs of the business. She has gone to appeal on it (from the head of trustees not external) anyone any advice ..seems to be becoming a big problem in a short time frame!

[Dmccallin81]

Ultimately you will have to trust the process. If the request doesn't fit the needs of the business then the employee has two options, alter her demands to work something that the setting can accommodate or find a position elsewhere that can meet her demands.

If we bend to support all personal circumstances there wouldn't be a business left to work at and I'm assuming that to hire another member of staff to work around her demands would be next to impossible? (I have found this an amazing counter argument)

[sunnyday]

3 hours ago, finleysmaid said:

Ok having a nightmare! have refuse a member of staff a flexible working request due to the fact it does not meet the needs of the business. She has gone to appeal on it (from the head of trustees not external) anyone any advice ..seems to be becoming a big problem in a short time frame!

Oh fm I'm sorry I have no words of wisdom, just sending you good wishes

Surely the 'head of trustees' will work in your best interest?

[finleysmaid]

it really is a bad show that she decided to do this NOW. I have come up with 3 plans she needs to choose one or the request will be denied outright!

[sunnyday]

32 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

it really is a bad show that she decided to do this NOW. I have come up with 3 plans she needs to choose one or the request will be denied outright!

Seriously that sounds fair enough to me

[finleysmaid]

49 minutes ago, sunnyday said:

Seriously that sounds fair enough to me

well having spoken to my HR informed husband I am a bit stuck now. I had plans to offer these solutions but he is saying that they may not be possible because what would happen if the staff without children asked for this too! argghh hadn't even thought of that anyway party tomorrow ...she'll have to wait

[Mouseketeer]

What a nonsense to have to deal with right now fm, I’d agree with your husband, where will it end once a presidence is set? If she can’t work the hours she was taken on for then she needs to find another more suitable to her needs job, we employ staff because that’s when we need them for maintaining ratio’s, how many EY settings can afford the luxury of over staffing to be able to offer flexi time (harsh I know) 

Hopefully your trustees will see sense....good luck 

[zigzag]

What a nightmare at this time in the term!  Hope you get it sorted satisfactorily and it does not spoil the end of term celebrations for you.

[mundia]

As long as the request has been made properly, and you have handled it 'reasonably ' (within guidance, which I'm sure you have read https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working ), you should have nothing to worry about. She is within her right to appeal. You have to have a good reason to reject it, and I don't think 'setting a precedent' qualifies as a good enough reason, but if in doubt take advice.

If you have some possible options, then presenting them shows that you have considered the request and not just dismissed it out of hand. Equally, if she has some solutions that might work, it would be reasonable to listen to them and consider them. You do have 3 months so you shouldn't feel pressured to make a decision right now if the request just came in.

I hope you manage to find an agreeable solution, for both of you.

[Foreveryoung]

I thought you could only put a working request in under the guidelines if you have a depedant or your a carer? this would mean that employees without children couldnt put in a request, thats just my taking on it though from reading up when i had a request put in 

[louby loo]

1 hour ago, Foreveryoung said:

I thought you could only put a working request in under the guidelines if you have a depedant or your a carer? this would mean that employees without children couldnt put in a request, thats just my taking on it though from reading up when i had a request put in 

Maybe elderly parents if you're claiming carers allowance?  or another adult that needs care? 

[mundia]

If you follow the link I gave above, you will see that ayone can request flexible working, not just carers. There are many reasons people might request it who aren't parents or carers, they have the same rights and should be treated equitably when making a request. The rules changed in 2014.

[finleysmaid]

On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 15:52, mundia said:

As long as the request has been made properly, and you have handled it 'reasonably ' (within guidance, which I'm sure you have read https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working ), you should have nothing to worry about. She is within her right to appeal. You have to have a good reason to reject it, and I don't think 'setting a precedent' qualifies as a good enough reason, but if in doubt take advice.

If you have some possible options, then presenting them shows that you have considered the request and not just dismissed it out of hand. Equally, if she has some solutions that might work, it would be reasonable to listen to them and consider them. You do have 3 months so you shouldn't feel pressured to make a decision right now if the request just came in..

Thanks all for your help . I am now well read on this subject.! some things to know if you ever have to deal with this

• Mundia is right that you have 3 months to consider...if however you respond and they appeal it then has to be dealt with within 7 days.
• It is not up to you as an employer to come up with solutions. They are making the request and should have thought out What advantage this could be to the business and what issues it may cause these can then be used to create a solution
• Refusal can only really be because it "doesn't meet business needs" and you need to prove that.
• You need a written protocol for how you are going to deal with it in the staff handbook.
• Everyone has the right to apply irrespective of their circumstances.....that also means that although you don't need to 'match' the offer with other members of staff they would also have the right to ask...if you've done it for one then it would be difficult to NOT do for others
• DO not be fooled in to thinking that just because they don't have children that they don't have the right to ask...your whole team could ask! so if it meant changing hours for one...could you do it for all of them?????

still ongoing will tell you what happens

[sunnyday]

3 hours ago, finleysmaid said:

Thanks all for your help . I am now well read on this subject.! some things to know if you ever have to deal with this

• Mundia is right that you have 3 months to consider...if however you respond and they appeal it then has to be dealt with within 7 days.
• It is not up to you as an employer to come up with solutions. They are making the request and should have thought out What advantage this could be to the business and what issues it may cause these can then be used to create a solution
• Refusal can only really be because it "doesn't meet business needs" and you need to prove that.
• You need a written protocol for how you are going to deal with it in the staff handbook.
• Everyone has the right to apply irrespective of their circumstances.....that also means that although you don't need to 'match' the offer with other members of staff they would also have the right to ask...if you've done it for one then it would be difficult to NOT do for others
• DO not be fooled in to thinking that just because they don't have children that they don't have the right to ask...your whole team could ask! so if it meant changing hours for one...could you do it for all of them?????

still ongoing will tell you what happens

Who would be an employer 

[GFCCCC]

51 minutes ago, sunnyday said:

Who would be an employer 

Hardest part of the job by far 

[zigzag]

2 hours ago, GFCCCC said:

Hardest part of the job by far 

It certainly is when you get tricky staff.  The children are a breeze in comparison!

[u412257]

I am reminded of a Wogan phrase ... 'soft hands' .... 

Ultimately, I am the employer and can decide what is and is not in the best interest of the Business and there will always be a reason why a change can not happen. However, the member of staff is asking for a reason (in their eyes a good reason) - so if possible I grant all requests for flexible working, otherwise I end up with a member of staff who is resentful and fees they have been hard done by (even if irrational). I have agreed to try something on a temporary basis to see how it works out.

On the other hand, as the Business requires, I have mandated that some staff have their hours reduced or that a previously granted flexible pattern is removed as it is no longer working for the business. So I don't change the standard contracts which are quite far reaching and general, but do change the implantation.

However, as soon as member of staff appeals a decision then I suspect that the relationship has been weakened - I would be very disappointed if one of my staff appealed such a decision.

[finleysmaid]

fortunately (or not) this has now been dealt with! what will happen long term I am not sure but the business requires a set working pattern for hours and I can't change that. Just a word of warning though if you accept a flexible working request on a temporary basis the employee can state that you have managed to accommodate this short term and therefore you could do it in the longer term too therefore removing the arguments against changing their hours! It went to appeal and was heard by our chair....she agreed that there was no alternative but to refuse the request. She won't be able to ask for another request for 26 weeks so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks for your replies . I appreciate all your time.

[finleysmaid]

well guess what ...going on holiday today....just received her resignation ! great !! i think unfortunately this was bound to happen but of course it does leave me free to find a member of staff happy to do the hours i need! ah well it is what it is!