pickles37 Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Hello, I manage a preschool and children's club that is open for 39 weeks a year plus 4 weeks holiday club . We offer care from 7.45-6.00pm and take and collect children from the primary school - a ten minute walk from setting. Because of our walking bus, between the hours of 3.00-3.30 we are often at 21-25 children currently in our care including around 19 primary children and 7 pre schoolers back at setting. So in regards to offering the 30 hours, based on our walking bus for 30 minutes, it seems we can only offer around 7 places a week for 30 hours. What would be the implications for this? I feel like we should be offering more, but because of 30 minutes in our day we can't. Any thoughts or guidance on what we could do? How sustainable are settings, we seem to have a forecast but it appears we are always at a loss, so could this lack of offer cause us to lose more money? Thank you
finleysmaid Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 you're basing this on a 10 hour day?? you can offer 5x6 hours?? or you could stretch your funding to cover holiday club
pickles37 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Posted January 29, 2017 Sorry to seem a little bit silly, but how did you work out that we can offer 5x6 hours?
finleysmaid Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 you can chose which hours are covered ...so you might decide your funded hours are 7.45 -1.45 every day and then they pay for the rest....you are lucky as your set up allows you to be clever with the funded hours. I would work out what is best for the business!
pickles37 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) So what happens if we pick hours but they don't suit families? It is very tricky as our setting is relatively small in relation to our set up, we only have around 28 pre schoolers and 20 of those we lose in July and 21 primary children. So could I send out questionnaires to gauge what families may do? Although that also seems slightly futile as our current families that will be with us in September are around 8. Edited January 29, 2017 by pickles37
finleysmaid Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 where do your families come from...how do they know about you?? If they access services before they get to you then this would be where you need to survey. So for instance do they access the doctors surgery/health visitors/ toddler groups /school (for siblings) etc library? how do you sort out your funded hours at the moment?
pickles37 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Posted January 29, 2017 We have offer our funded hours in many ways - so either 9.15-12.15 or 9.15-1.15 or 9.15-2.15 or 12.30-3.30. Our families come through recommendations, family users from the village or the village primary school or siblings. I think the flexibility we offer sets us above many other settings in the area, which is often to our detriment because we create so much work. 1
lsp Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 You say that many of your children are leaving to go to school, but will they still need to use your wrap around, have they got siblings that will be coming to you? This is all information you could find out from a questionnaire for the 30 hours but will give you the info you need for a business plan and forward planning. This in turn could help with the decision about which hours you need to offer as funded and which need to be paid for. PS. No - I haven't done mine yet.
finleysmaid Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 so i think the first thing would be to survey those on your waiting list. Your current users who are likely to use you for siblings, and school. This will give you a better idea of what people think they need (you will NOT be able to please everyone) What are your most used hours now? What percentage of your users take up the 4 blocks you mention? 1
Mouseketeer Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) I sent out a survey over a week ago, from 25'ish have had 6 back, and only 1 of them seemed vaguely interested and thought they'd want a few more hours...admittedly this wasn't given to the 30 leaving for school as I didn't think it would affect them until yesterday :-( Edited January 29, 2017 by Mouseketeer 3
finleysmaid Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 when the 15 hours came in no one was interested....but the take up grew rapidly. This time i have been having enquiries for the last year! Pickles...you are still offering care for the time the walking bus is on ....presume the 7 stay with staff at the setting...or do you all go and pick up the others? (we have a similar situation but the school is just across the road)
hopeytg Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Pickles your set up seems similar to mine - although we don't do after school - I too was extremely flexible basically parents chose their hours and I charged for those hours - we had sessions but if they didn't suit then there was an alternative. I am changing to sessions and charging for the whole session - it is the only way we can be sustainable. It doesn't sit well with me but I have to think of the business. We are going to be offering 0800 - 1600 - first hour at a rate of £4.50/hr then morning session 0900 - 1300 - which will include lunch and then afternoon session 1300-1500 (this will be the hours the 15hr funded will be able to access totally free - if parents want the morning they will have to pay for the extra hour) This schedule was suggested by our local Early Years Business Advisor and I think most settings in our area will be adopting it. Those wanting only 30 hrs will have to collect their child between 12 & 1 which doesn't seem very fair but apparently acceptable. The whole thing is a nightmare and seems to be causing an awful lot of settings extra stress and worry.
lsp Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Will you be providing lunch and charging for this or will children bring packed lunch?
finleysmaid Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 This model has not yet been agreed by the governement!!! It may not be allowed so maybe have a plan B (and CDEFGH!!) 3
hopeytg Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Isp - we offer the option of cooked lunch at an additional £2.00 but they can bring a pack lunch if they prefer. Finleysmaid - the model was suggested by the local Early Years Team and they said it fits in with the criteria?
Rafa Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 This model has not yet been agreed by the governement!!! It may not be allowed so maybe have a plan B (and CDEFGH!!) Yes, seems we are Government 'owned' rather than PVI's once we accept the funding! I also read that hopeytg's model may not be acceptable (sorry hopey) so until the final agreement is out (?) pretty difficult to come up with 'ways to stay sustainable' by Summer term!
Rafa Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Isp - we offer the option of cooked lunch at an additional £2.00 but they can bring a pack lunch if they prefer. Finleysmaid - the model was suggested by the local Early Years Team and they said it fits in with the criteria? Not sure the EYT know much more than us! A shot in the dark?
finleysmaid Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 two of the governement training companies have two different answers 4 children suggest this model is fine whereas childcare works says it is still under review. I would doubt your LEA even know the true answer to that question as it hasn't as yet been decided !!!!
pickles37 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Posted January 29, 2017 So are the government deciding the "model" and what it must look like? All of your comments are extremely helpful, but I don't know what to do, the overlap of 30 minutes of our walking bus means we may be only able to offer 5-7 places, which I don't think will be sustainable for us, we are committee run setting and I don't know how to explain all of this to them, again one of the downsides of our set up - as they don't work on the floor and so don't understand it in practice. Thank you, it is reAlly helpful to hear all your thoughts and ideas, it is a real nightmare to know what to do. I am going to devise a questionnaire, but that will only be based on thise families we may keep in September, but not sure where to go. I think I will speak to our business advisor too. 2
gillpen Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) We open from 8:45-3:15 each day. Two 3 hour sessions and a lunch club session in the middle. My idea was to offer the 30 hours between 8:45 and 2:45 continuously and then charge for the last half hour if parents want that (most will because they have siblings in the school). This seems reasonably simple for us to implement. Edited January 30, 2017 by gillpen 2
Rafa Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 We open from 8:45-3:15 each day. Two 3 hour sessions and a lunch club session in the middle. My idea was to offer the 30 hours between 8:45 and 2:45 continuously and then charge for the last half hour if parents want that (most will because they have siblings in the school). This seems reasonably simple for us to implement. Think you may have cracked it gillpen! : )
lsp Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 I think the best idea is to make it as simple as possible, using 'whole hour sessions' eg 3 or 6 hours. In my simple mind that must make it easier to manage in terms of staffing and accounting. This is coming from a sessional pre-school manager! 1
Foreveryoung Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 Does anyone know the answer..... a full year deferred child who will turn 5 during their deferred year with us in 2018, would they be eligible for the 30hours. It says 3 and 4 year olds but carnt see anything else? A parent has asked and I'm trying to give best answer I can even though nothing is written in stone yet
finleysmaid Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 Does anyone know the answer..... a full year deferred child who will turn 5 during their deferred year with us in 2018, would they be eligible for the 30hours. It says 3 and 4 year olds but carnt see anything else? A parent has asked and I'm trying to give best answer I can even though nothing is written in stone yet I would say yes...because they are eligible for the 15 hours so it would make sense that they were eligible for 30...but this is purely a guess!
lsp Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 I think I read somewhere that children who are in reception will not be eligible because they get 30 hours in school so ....... it would make perfect sense that all deferred children would be entitled to it????? But then again, when did sense matter in this scheme?
BroadOaks Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) They are eligible up until the term after they turn 5 years old. This is true for 15 hours so if parents are eligible for 30 hours then I would also guess they will get 30 hours. Edited January 31, 2017 by BroadOaks
Mouseketeer Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 I wonder how this will affect the schools that still only do mornings to start children off, will they stay on half days and parents will then want EY settings to have them back that most likely won't have the spaces anymore in what has traditionally been a less busy term, or might all schools up to full time straight off, possibly affecting those that relied on school leavers back for a while in the Aut term.
BroadOaks Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 With regards to offering the 30 hours funding, we can use a few models. A good model might be to use the stretched hours. Children eligible will get 1140 "free" hours. We can now work out the average hours per week: 1140 / 51 weeks = 22.35 hours - although there are a few bank holidays.. so maybe we COULD round this up to 23 hours per week.. (please don't shout at me) so if this was then spread over 5 days.. it would give children 4.6 hours per day or if we really wanted it could equate to 4hrs and 30mins to compensate for rounding up earlier. IF full time care: This way you might want to offer sessions as follows: 8.00am - 12.30pm then 1.30pm - 6pm (Leaving an hour for LUNCH for others) although breakfast might be required for morning sessions,and a snack for the afternoon!! Small charge possible or for free? OR for shorter hour settings: 9am - 1.30pm or 9.30am - 2pm etc etc - might include dinner or snack.. although 1.30pm isn't too bad for parents to then feed their child?! Not sure on this though! :unsure: Anyway, more options 1
Rea Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Does it say anywhere that the whole 30 hours has to be used? Could the parent ask for 20 hours funded or 23, 26? The 15 hours isnt mandatory so I just wondered.
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