FSFRebecca Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 ok so last might was a complete waste of time. They refused to discuss the funding amounts at all ! they basically went through all the info we already know (because we are informed people on this site!!!) Our problems were not actually dealt with ...no solutions were offered ...and I was told how to create a business plan! I hate to tell them but we all need to create business plans in order to set up our businesses! this event was obviously put on because the LEA needs to fulfil this as part of their brief but I wouldn't bother going if your events are run by childcare works....unless of course you fancy three hours of frustration! The childcare works presentation we went to right at the beginning was excellent. They were keen to get feedback, so if you think yours didn't fulfill your requirements then drop them an email!
BroadOaks Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 We had the opportunity to attend ours this week and we simply did not bother. There is nothing they can tell us that we don't already know, except maybe points regarding, linking up with other settings and if children need to attend 2 or more settings to fulfill their hours, then how can this be made possible? Should this really be left up to us to sort?! It's unlikely a parent will want to nip out of work (or from in front of their TV) to transport their child from 1 setting to another? Did the meeting provide any useful information finleysmaid? 1
sunnyday Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 ok so last might was a complete waste of time. They refused to discuss the funding amounts at all ! they basically went through all the info we already know (because we are informed people on this site!!!) Our problems were not actually dealt with ...no solutions were offered ...and I was told how to create a business plan! I hate to tell them but we all need to create business plans in order to set up our businesses! this event was obviously put on because the LEA needs to fulfil this as part of their brief but I wouldn't bother going if your events are run by childcare works....unless of course you fancy three hours of frustration! grrrrrrr how frustrating for you
finleysmaid Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 We had the opportunity to attend ours this week and we simply did not bother. There is nothing they can tell us that we don't already know, except maybe points regarding, linking up with other settings and if children need to attend 2 or more settings to fulfill their hours, then how can this be made possible? Should this really be left up to us to sort?! It's unlikely a parent will want to nip out of work (or from in front of their TV) to transport their child from 1 setting to another? Did the meeting provide any useful information finleysmaid? well the title was getting business ready for 30 hours of free childcare (I already have an issue with calling it FREE!) and im afraid that in order to get my business ready I would need to have some basic facts to hand like '1.what my income is going to be' 2 what supplements will be paid ( in order that I might plan for staffing) 3. agreed models of operation 4. time lines and deadlines etc. none of these were answered. the first slide announces an opportunity to grow and change...so no choice then!! the government quite obviously expects us to provide full day care for at least 38 weeks and actually the model is highly favouring a 52 week operation (no surprise!) I guess my biggest issue with this is that schools are NOT being expected to open for 52 weeks so ok we can sort out the under fives but at some point it is going to have to tackle the rest of the population who have children over 5....watch out schools ...you're next! (I guess you are at an advantage because you are more unionised !) There was A LOT of information about funded 2's but as we have discussed here before funded 2 spaces will suffer enormously in the short term because why would you have them when they cost so much more (we would need £10 /hour per child to cover the money we get from a three year old....I asked...we will not get that! :lol: ) Lots of info about the lea's responsibility in this and the fact they have to find spaces!!! :wacko: Then over an hour on business planning (go teach your grandmother!) I will however say that the most useful piece of info was 1.you don't have to offer it (although it was made obvious that if you do not then you will loose customers) 2 when getting to know your future market contact toddler groups etc as these will be the parents accessing 30 free hours (although these are parents currently not working so not eligible ....working parents of toddlers may already be accessing nursery places) Apparently she felt that parents on high income won't want 30 hours...and if they do they will pay for extras :blink: :blink: :blink: all I can say is I must have some tight gi** round here cos they never pay for anything :rolleyes: 5
Mouseketeer Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Do they think they're telling us something we don't already know? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38682235 2
finleysmaid Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 so my question for you all this morning 1 will you offer 30 'free'hours? 2 Will you offer it to all your families? 3 will the funding cover your costs? interesting that 80% of Harrogate providers have chosen not to offer free 30 .....clubbing together with other providers will of course protect everyone....the government are trying to divide and conquer which will work in my area because there is lots of competition so settings don't usually like to 'share'!!! 1
BroadOaks Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 1 will you offer 30 'free'hours? Yes, we feel we need to, otherwise parents will go elsewhere 2 Will you offer it to all your families? Yes, we are never at full capacity (through choice) so we have many spaces. Children who take 30 hours are "less work" than 2 children at 15 hours, so it figures too. 3 will the funding cover your costs? It wouldn't cover our costs, luckily we have many parent's who need full time childcare and pay for the additional hours. We will need to wait and see for the actual funding rates.. 1
BroadOaks Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Do they think they're telling us something we don't already know? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38682235 I am going to get all political again and take in to account how the childcare sector seems to be heading. When a service as more demand than can be supplied, it creates opportunity for investment. We are seeing Eagle Superco Ltd and a few others, investing heavily and borrowing many millions. This is with interest rates of around 12.5% too! They don't seem to care, publicly at least, to what the funding rates are going to be, although behind the scenes, I am sure they are extremely aware. Do the government really care about smaller nurseries? Would the government like these large corporations, lets say 9 or 10 around the UK to control them all or at least the majority? How much money is in it for the Government and more importantly the banks themselves? How would these low funding rates help these larger chains? It keeps the valuations of these smaller chains, or individual nurseries lower and easier to acquire. Although many smaller chains manage to do quite well, it seems when a decent price is offered they usually sell. How does this help us? Well it doesn't, I just like to think outside the box and express my ramblings here even though it's kind of useless. 1
GFCCCC Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 1 will you offer 30 'free'hours? Yes - and we don't think it's going to make much - if any - difference to us as those children that require more than 15 hours will already do so as their parents are at work - they will just be paying for hours over 30 instead of hours over 15. There won't be a sudden rush of new ones as any parents who decide to go to work because the 15 hours is available will not do so all at once but will increase very gradually over a period of time. Also, parents who work in low paid employment are currently entitled to 15 hours and then to up to 70% of the remainder of their fees from childcare tax credit so they if they are going to work full time they possibly already are doing. I really don't think this is going to have much impact on full day care settings. 2 Will you offer it to all your families? Yes (as above) 3 will the funding cover your costs? Yes - the funding rate is higher than the rates we charge
Mouseketeer Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 2 Will you offer it to all your families? Yes, we are never at full capacity (through choice) so we have many spaces. Children who take 30 hours are "less work" than 2 children at 15 hours, so it figures too. I totally agree with this...but then wonder where the next lot of 30 chn doing 30 hours will come from if we haven't brought them in before becoming funded 3's 2
BroadOaks Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Yes it is a problem although finding 15 children at 30 hours is easier than finding 30 at 15 hours. I think a half rate of toddlers to pre-school ratio is required. So if you need 15 pre-school in September 2018 you will only need 7 or 8 toddlers feeding each year.. sorry i meant 7 or 8 in morning and 7 or 8 in afternoon.. so you would actually still need 15 toddlers in total.. just not all at once Edited January 20, 2017 by BroadOaks
sunnyday Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 3 will the funding cover your costs? Yes - the funding rate is higher than the rates we charge Really pleased for you - but surprised too - your funding must either be far more generous in your area or you set your fees quite low? I charge £5.00 per hour and receive just £3.91 in funding
GFCCCC Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Really pleased for you - but surprised too - your funding must either be far more generous in your area or you set your fees quite low? I charge £5.00 per hour and receive just £3.91 in funding Our funding rate is 4.10 including the supplement and our charge is 3.45 per hour (However, that is only for a full day - I gather from this site that some settings are more flexible and will let parents choose hours but we can only keep it at that rate if every hour is paid for in full so parents can only have 5 hours or 10 hours and the ones on funded hours only get 3 sessions of 5 hours rather than 5 sessions of 3 hours. This means we can keep occupancy close to 100% and keep prices lower) 1
thumperrabbit Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 We are seeing Eagle Superco Ltd and a few others, investing heavily and borrowing many millions. This is with interest rates of around 12.5% too! They don't seem to care, publicly at least, to what the funding rates are going to be, although behind the scenes, I am sure they are extremely aware. I'd never heard of them and so googled to find out its Busy Bees! sounds like a petrol station name to me ! Sessional 15hour only preschools - do you think this 30hrs is going to affect you? 2
Rafa Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Sessional 15hour only preschools - do you think this 30hrs is going to affect you? Yes eventually. We will probably be snuffed out by the daycare offering 30 hours! That is, IMHO The Big Plan! Rural settings where jobs are not a plenty will probably continue. Lovely for those children - Mummy at home! Way to go Mr Cameron! 2
finleysmaid Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 and our charge is 3.45 per hour Gosh is this really covering your true costs per hour? and will it continue to do so when wages and pensions are increased again?
BroadOaks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 sounds like a petrol station name to me :lol: :lol: :lol: yes, it is a strange name and actually doesn't sound very British either.. the kind of name more common in places like Asia? Yes, it is of course the largest chain in the UK - Busy Bee's, they are going for worldwide domination, it seems. :rolleyes:
GFCCCC Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Gosh is this really covering your true costs per hour? and will it continue to do so when wages and pensions are increased again? Although we charge £3.45, the reality is that most of children are funded partially or wholly, so we are actually getting more than £3.45 for most places. So for example, our charge for ten hours is £34.50, but if we have two funded children in that place, we are getting £48.50 for two year olds or £41.00 for 3/4 year olds. It does cover it as we work on turnover rather than price, we manage to cover it because almost all of our places are occupied and being charged for the full 10 hours per day. Also, the rooms with the most children are the Preschool and the After school which both need the lowest ratio of staff to children so are the most economical to run - we have 100% occupancy and a waiting list in both. I did put the price up last year when salaries and pensions went up and we shall do so again in January 2018. I try to only put prices up every 18 - 24 months but allow for two pay reviews within the price rise. We are not obliged to raise salaries every year as we do pay above the minimum wage, but we do hold one anyway. I think we are also lucky because we own the building so have no rent or mortgage, also as a charity we get maximum rate relief and we are able to raise funds through grants for much of our equipment etc. It's still a fine balancing act though to keep it going and we do actually give completely free places wherever we have gaps on a six weekly review basis to parents who need them - I have five free children at the moment doing 10 - 20 hours each. 2
BroadOaks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 GFCCCC - it sounds like a great set up.. well done
LKeyteach Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 Looks like opening up the market place to drive down fees is going to work. Don't think I can compete with funding rate that is acceptable to big chains. I do this because I believe young children need a caring and consistent environment. If I do not pay my staff a living wage I won't keep them. If I don't pay to keep them trained and informed I won't keep them. Sorry to moan but I am truly scared about how we are going to continue being sustainable. my true costs are somewhere between £5.50 -£6.50 per hour. That is with a small profit to keep for rainy days and for parents who can't pay fees.
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