Employment and English & Maths

[Jester]

I'm so confused!

If you already hold Level 3 and gained it years before then you can still be counted in ratio? Yes?

[Inge]

I'm so confused!

If you already hold Level 3 and gained it years before then you can still be counted in ratio? Yes?

 

yes .. Rule only applies to those who started training from Sept. 14

 

They don't make it easy do they.. and don't always tell everyone but you need to know it..

[thumperrabbit]

so can we no longer use an 'unqualified' member of staff in ratio?

I don't think you realise what's happened/ing until you get to a recruitment drive and then all of a sudden you realise all the changes - it gets more and more baffling :blink:

[mundia]

Yes you can still use unqualified staff in ratio as long as you meet the minimum ratio of qualified to unqualified staff.

[lsp]

Thumper rabbit - I think unqualified can still be included in your ratio, as in number of adults, as long as you have 50% at level 3 or above. Just have to check that newer level 3 have maths and English GCSE grade C or above.

 

I am assuming that if maths and English are taken and passed at later date, that the level 3 can then be counted???

[Guest]

It's very confusing isn't it, I'm just hoping that our apprentices will get their gcse as all their hard work on their level 3 will have been wasted unless they could resit their maths and gain their qualification once they'd passed

[Jester]

A friend of mine told me yesterday she is going to be doing a Level 2 TA course and she has been told she has to do a maths equivalency course along side it as standard. She said she's "not allowed" to do the Level 3 until she's done Level 2.

[thumperrabbit]

A friend of mine told me yesterday she is going to be doing a Level 2 TA course and she has been told she has to do a maths equivalency course along side it as standard. She said she's "not allowed" to do the Level 3 until she's done Level 2.

Yes I've been told the same

[Jester]

I think it's got to the point now where I really need to crack on and nail maths! I can't progress without it!

[finleysmaid]

A friend of mine told me yesterday she is going to be doing a Level 2 TA course and she has been told she has to do a maths equivalency course along side it as standard. She said she's "not allowed" to do the Level 3 until she's done Level 2.

equivalency testing is normal for all courses unless gcse's are already in place.

[thumperrabbit]

equivalency testing is normal for all courses unless gcse's are already in place.

To be fair equivalency testing was part of doing my NVQ course for everyone, 10 years ago - don't know if that must've been just the college I was doing it at.

We were however allowed to go straight to level 3 depending on what job you were doing - in those days lots of people had been working in early years without qualifications even in a supervisory role.

For a TA qualification now I've been told everyone MUST do level 2 before level 3 no matter what job they've been doing.

[Jester]

equivalency testing is normal for all courses unless gcse's are already in place.

To be fair equivalency testing was part of doing my NVQ course for everyone, 10 years ago - don't know if that must've been just the college I was doing it at.

We were however allowed to go straight to level 3 depending on what job you were doing - in those days lots of people had been working in early years without qualifications even in a supervisory role.

For a TA qualification now I've been told everyone MUST do level 2 before level 3 no matter what job they've been doing.

When I did my Level 3 I went straight to it because I had 4 GCSEs at C grade (well I had more than that but4 was the minimum) there were no requirements for them to be in specific subjects. There were no equivalency tests but looking back maybe there should have been because on the BTEC there were very high expectations with regard to written work and we did a module on data investigation and interpretation, many students on the course struggled with the level of comprehension required and so had to go and do the one year course before going onto the BTEC.

[mundia]

I think this is down to the course provider. There is no 'legal' requirement to have a level 2 prior to level 3, and none of the colleges in my area insist on this as an entry requirement.

[MarshaD]

If they started their qualification from Sept 2014 onwards....

 

Clear as mud eh?

 

I am in the camp that a well qualified workforce should have a basic level of maths and English, and a GCSE, or an equivalent, is basic. I know it's not popular to be in that camp, but I see so much poor English and poor maths skills being modelled that I do think if we want to see our profession regarded as a profession then we must have better basic literacy and numeracy skills, starting with our level 6s then our level 3's.

 

But that's another debate for another day..

 

 

This is how it should be:

 

If a college have awarded a person a Level 3 Certificate in Childcare (Early Education qualification or whatever it was called at the time) then they passed the criteria the government set at that time. They are therefor qualified as a Level 3.. and would have either needed to have GCSE's when they started the course (otherwise they wouldn't have started the course) OR they did not require them, when starting the course. It would be unfair to Qualify somebody as a Level 3 if in reality they are not able to then use it unless they took GSCE's, after gaining their Cert. It would be ludicrous and extremely unfair if this is the case?

 

I am definitely not in the camp of requiring GCSE's C or above to be in childcare.. I actually find it extremely insulting to many people who would LOVE to work with children and have a passion to really want to develop a child in PSED - THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect a young child can develop in younger life. As long as this person could communicate well with children.. basic communication skills, and have basic counting, can count from 1 to 50 and do simple maths puzzles. This is ALL a young child needs to learn before they start Y1. I would take on a member of staff who could really engage with children and make them happy and feel welcome and safe.. over a "A star" student who is only interested in personal development and the money at the end of the week!

 

 

Goodness. This is such a complex issue.

Too long has early years education been thought of as an 'easy' option. Our job has to be one of the most important and worthwhile jobs there is to do. So I can understand the desire to elevate the profession, and, on the face of it I am also in the camp that a well qualified workforce should have maths and English GCSE. Yet Broad Oaks I also agree with you a bit of oomph and a desire to do the job to the best of one's ability is also crucial.

Passion and qualifications are not mutually exclusive, but as always these things are never black and white. I have a Level 3 member of staff who does not have good literacy or numeracy levels. This means that her tapestry observations need a high level of editing before they can be authorised; and that she cannot calculate attendance percentages or do invoices of some of the supervisory tasks that I had in mind when I hired her. On the other hand she has over ten years of experience and is fantastic with the kids. I also have a Level 2 member of staff with mild learning difficulties who will never progress to Level 3 because there is no chance of her passing the English and maths, again she is great with the kids but struggles with the more complex aspects of the role like levelling observations. So it depends on what needs doing.

Perhaps the question should be why is it that almost half of the young people doing GCSEs are not attaining what is deemed to be a basic level of secondary education? Perhaps it's down to the government's insistence on stepford teaching and the over formal methods of teaching that turn some children off learning before they've even made it to KS2. Yet another debate...

[Mouseketeer]

Just had an application, Eng lit at C but Eng Lang at D ....now what ? Can they half count ;-p

[Inge]

Childcare and Education minister Sam Gyimah has promised a review of the GCSE requirements at Level 3.

 

 

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1158026/gcse-requirements-to-be-reviewed

[wend59]

Hi all,

I thought that new level 3 staff couldn't gain level 3 without maths and english being first achieved.

[lauraupton]

Hi all,

I thought that new level 3 staff couldn't gain level 3 without maths and english being first achieved.

 

Some training providers will allow candidates onto a Level 3 EYE course without GCSE's in English (must be Language btw) and Maths; and some will not.

Some training providers will ONLY allow candidates onto a Level 3 EYE course WITH GCSE's in English and Maths (grade C and above).

 

If the candidate completes and passes the EYE Level 3 BUT DOES NOT hold/pass GCSE's in English and Maths (grade C and above) then they can count as a LEVEL 2 in your ratio's.

 

The 'licence to practice at Level 3' for anyone who started a qualification on or after 1st September 2014 =

• Early Years Educator qualification (so if they don't have a pre-existing Level 3 which was deemed full and valid for delivering the EYFS and they complete a Foundation Degree (level 4/5) etc the qualification must meet the EYE criteria/standards or it doesn't count)
• GCSE Graded A-C in English (Language) and Maths
• and soon to be added to this list is Paediatric First Aid

So as an employer you must see and check certificates for the above before recruiting someone into a Level 3 post.

The EYFS ratio's have not changed in regards to employing unqualified staff and Level 2 staff.

 

This has absolutely NO effect on people who already held a full and valid Level 3 prior to 1st September 2014.

Edited July 27, 2016 by lauraupton

[FSFRebecca]

Thank you Laura for that clarification on what is a very confusing issue for many people!

[Cait]

Yes, that's really helpful. Thank you