SEN child leaving for school...

[tish501]

Hi all...we have our Sen child going to Main stream school in September ..I and my staff have struggled with antisocial behaviour,violence,no speech,anger, the whole gammut of Autism for 2 years....with no extra staff....just a paltry amount of High Tariff Needs funding which equates to £1.34 per hour...nowhere near enough for 1-1 for him.....but now he is off to school.......you guessed it.... "individual attention is required for this child......"

why was this not available to us during the formative years....we were still doing the same job trying to bring him on to enjoy school...but of course they will not be hit or kicked as we were.....

I despair....

[finleysmaid]

HI Tish...I understand your annoyance but you are VERY lucky to have got any funding at all! Has he not got a statement then?(or EHCP)

[lsp]

Our LA has really tightened up on who gets send funding. They also point out that it is not statutory for the under 5's so we have been lucky to have had it in the past. We are going to have to be very creative in the future. We are told that EYPP should help!

[louby loo]

Same here, this year one of ours has gone from nothing extra with us to 30 hours support in school... :unsure:

 

The other thing that always get me is - we get no help/funding for one-to-one, and are not able to exclude (not that we would) yet schools get extra support and then often manage to 'exclude' the child.

 

(this happened with one of ours a year or so ago.We struggled to manage- and did a ruddy good job. The school at the time didn't want any advice/strategies that worked from us at transition time..... then by December the poor child was on almost total exclusion. I still get sad when I think of it even now- two years down the line

[tish501]

HI Tish...I understand your annoyance but you are VERY lucky to have got any funding at all! Has he not got a statement then?(or EHCP)

Yes he was statemented ...,makes no difference we just struggle along....hoping we have made a difference with him....another of our children is 4, in nappies,we had to exclude him last week for kicking and punching a teacher...yet he starts school Sept......

[finleysmaid]

Yes he was statemented ...,makes no difference we just struggle along....hoping we have made a difference with him....another of our children is 4, in nappies,we had to exclude him last week for kicking and punching a teacher...yet he starts school Sept......

If he has a statement then he has funding attached to him. Just like in school. So if he is funded for 15 hours then you should get his sen funding ON TOP of his EEF

 

Have to say that I do not agree with excluding children ...either at this age or any other. All we are saying is if you are badly behaved then you can go home and do what you want! doesn't seem to figure in my head!

[finleysmaid]

They also point out that it is not statutory for the under 5's so we have been lucky to have had it in the past.

Interesting? when they say not statutory are they saying that education is not statutory (which is true) or funding???

[Mouseketeer]

We still have to apply for funding even though ECHP already states 32hrs will be given when joining school next year (deferring school place).....makes me so cross that we are not automatically entitled to the same support.

[Cait]

Oh yes, we had this. Had a child who had Autism and was included really well with us, no additional support for her at all. We understood flash points and triggers and had very few incidents in her last year with us. The other children learned how to help her, and when she was, or wasn't receptive to their advances. They tolerated her demands for inclusion with what they were doing, and allowed her to take things from them to examine for a moment, knowing that she would happily give it back in a minute.

On entry to school, however, she was allotted a 1-1 and withdrawn from the classroom. She was allowed to run round the yard when she wanted. She lost that 'inclusion in the group' that we had worked hard to give her, and which she has thrived on.

It was very sad, especially for her Mum, who saw a great change in her behaviour.

[sunnyday]

We are told that EYPP should help!

That statement rather assumes that the child will be eligible for EYPP - and we all know that is not necessarily so

 

Having finally prepared and distributed the required forms for claiming EYPP it turned out (as I knew it would) that I don't have any eligible children

 

Feel incredibly under supported currently with one of my little boys........I'm trying so hard to get some/any recognition that he needs help and further assessment - never mind extra funding which would be a huge bonus......

Edited July 20, 2015 by sunnyday

[Cait]

It's far too frustrating!

[Mouseketeer]

It sure is...at what point can we say NO! We can't support any more SEN or children with very difficult behaviour issues in our setting within normal staffing ratio's and not be seen as discriminating or un-inclusive ?

[Guest]

I completely agree. We have supported a child with needs all of this year, and the child is remaining with us instead of going to mainstream nursery in a school as mum is happy that he is happy. However, it has been very hard to give him what we know he needs with our minimal staffing and knowledge. We now also have a child with Down's syndrome too. We get no extra funding or actual bodies to help with these children, so we muddle along doing the best we can. As soon as these children leave and go to school, there is so much more available to them. I have some suspicions about one of our new joiners from September, so that may be yet another child to add to the mix. I want to be able to include all these children and give them a good start, but when is it ok to say 'no, actually, we can't manage that and still give all our other children what they need to'???

[finleysmaid]

To my knowledge there should be NO reason why a child who has downs syndrome should not have a statement in place...unless they are very capable and developing at a good rate. Why have their support workers not organised this already? Parents should be getting some sort of support and these helpers should be working with us as settings to ensure a smooth transition into the setting. There are some very specific learning methods used with children with DS which should be put in place early(including possible Makaton etc etc)

[finleysmaid]

Can I ask as a general question...if you feel a child needs an EHCP ...do you know what to do and how to go about it in your borough? what evidence you need etc etc ????

[Guest]

To my knowledge there should be NO reason why a child who has downs syndrome should not have a statement in place...unless they are very capable and developing at a good rate. Why have their support workers not organised this already? Parents should be getting some sort of support and these helpers should be working with us as settings to ensure a smooth transition into the setting. There are some very specific learning methods used with children with DS which should be put in place early(including possible Makaton etc etc)

It's in the process of being completed, which is taking longer than the 20 weeks aimed for... even when she does get it, it's unlikely we'll get any extra support - we can apply, but there's no guarantee, or so I'm told

[finleysmaid]

Hiapreschool sorry if I gave the wrong impression...the previous question was to everyone not just to you!

 

What I can't understand is why there is a question about getting funding once the child has an EHCP the system should be the same as when then have a statement and so the funding should be given to the setting they are attending. I cannot find any evidence that this should not be the case and so the LEA's are on questionable grounds I feel if they refuse to fund an ehcp! There is a strict legal framework for timings and parents can take counties to court if it is not followed...I think maybe your LEA needs to buck up!!!! I would suggest the parents take legal advice if they are able to do so.

 

Im wondering who has told you that no money will be forthcoming,,,do they KNOW this or are they guessing! Ask them the hard questions and minute the meetings and responses then they can't wangle out of it.

[catma]

To redress the balance a bit, I've long lost count of the children with SEN/D I've had to support in School Reception with no additional funds/adults (1:30 don't forget). It usually took all of reception to gather the evidence to prove they needed a statement etc etc... maybe the evidence gathering perriod has just shifted to an earlier point?

I've been in countless schools that have multiple numbers of unsupported children with SEN/D in Reception. It's not all a bed of roses out there. Honest.

Cx

Edited July 22, 2015 by catma

[Lyanne]

Can I ask as a general question...if you feel a child needs an EHCP ...do you know what to do and how to go about it in your borough? what evidence you need etc etc ????

 

We've done one for a child - the child was dual placement with us and a special school, but the special school asked us to take the lead on it as they had so many others to complete, also the child had been with us for longer so we had more of the history. We'd had help from County filling out the generic referral form for the child to go to the assessment nursery at the special school, and had help again with the EHCP. To be honest, it was a learning curve for us and the support worker from County as it was the first application for EHCP she'd done as well as ours.

 

I only did the generic referral for the special school place, but our SENCo said the paperwork was very similar. She also said it hadn't changed much from what had been required when we'd done a Statement application last year.

 

The evidence we sent was the letters of diagnosis, etc and our tracker showing where the child's development was, plus the form which had sections for us to fill out about what the child does with us, parents to fill out, etc.

 

A child having or not having an EHCP should make not difference to a setting getting whatever extra money is available from your LEA, just as a child having a diagnosis should not stop them getting an EHCP if they need one (though of course, a diagnosis helps as it is more evidence...).

 

In Suffolk, our funding money gives everyone money towards SEN, and if you have a child with more severe needs (as of course our child that we applied for the EHCP for has) you fill in a form showing their needs and can apply for the Higher Tariff Needs Funding. There is only a limited pot of money for early years children for each term (of course!) so the more of us that felt we needed to apply, and County agreed the child fit the criteria, the less money we each got for each child.

 

We got HTN for 2 children for this term, and put it towards more hours for our staff in when they were in. We didn't advertise for an extra member of staff as from previous experience of recruitment, getting someone who fit all our wish list to support them, would not have happened, and if we'd taken on someone to train for the role, by the time they'd finished training, the children would have gone onto school. For schools where the child is going to be with them for the next 7 years, this is less of an issue!

 

Going back to Tish's initial post, we had a child a few years ago who needed help, and got help from us, though it was hard work, but we could not apply for extra support for the child as they did their 15 hours funded spaces at the school nursery. And came to us for 20 hours a week for which parents paid about half of what we'd have got from funding. SEN money only went with funding hours...

[louby loo]

It's not all a bed of roses out there. Honest.

Cx

Yes I can second that.

 

Our little one that has just left us with no support, was going to a school with 32 hours in place- two new support staff employed........ Only for the school to find out today that the little one wont be starting as they are moving out of area as of this week. Headteacher asked if we knew about the move, we hadn't a clue either! We had been spending extra time working on their school transition . Very sad for the child, I hope they get support wherever it is they have moved to.

[finleysmaid]

To redress the balance a bit, I've long lost count of the children with SEN/D I've had to support in School Reception with no additional funds/adults (1:30 don't forget). It usually took all of reception to gather the evidence to prove they needed a statement etc etc... maybe the evidence gathering perriod has just shifted to an earlier point?

I've been in countless schools that have multiple numbers of unsupported children with SEN/D in Reception. It's not all a bed of roses out there. Honest.

Cx

I am very aware that this is the case have one little one just entering school in September...Mum still in complete denial so no help in place other than salt!

[finleysmaid]

Yes I can second that.

 

Our little one that has just left us with no support, was going to a school with 32 hours in place- two new support staff employed........ Only for the school to find out today that the little one wont be starting as they are moving out of area as of this week. Headteacher asked if we knew about the move, we hadn't a clue either! We had been spending extra time working on their school transition . Very sad for the child, I hope they get support wherever it is they have moved to.

Oh blimey....so bad for everyone!